On 01/11/2011 04:25 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:58:45 +0100 > Lionel Le Folgoc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 01:11:26PM -0600, Jim Campbell wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Glenn de Groot > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >>> [...] > >>> > >> > >> If you haven't seen the latest issue, Linux Journal has a quick > look at some > >> alternate desktop environments, and the first one featured is Xfce on > >> Xubuntu. The primary* thing that they noted was that the default > Xubuntu > >> install ran with 325mb of RAM used, while Ubuntu's default RAM > usage after > >> boot-up was 328mb (by contrast, Lubuntu used just 167mb of RAM). They > >> actually suggested using Ubuntu with lighter-weight apps (i.e., > Installing > >> Ubuntu and replacing Rhythmbox with Exaile, etc.) over using > Xubuntu. (Note > >> that they didn't *dislike* Xubuntu, but just thought it wasn't a big > >> advantage to use Xfce over Gnome.) > >> > > > I would like to see one useful review that tries to identify which > > apps/daemons are contributing to this huge memory footprint, instead of > > repeatedly popping up magic numbers out of their hat... > > >> Xubuntu may load some useful features that Lubuntu doesn't load, > but that > >> RAM usage number is one measuring stick that people use. Would it be > >> worthwhile to consider any changes that might allow for lesser > memory usage > >> at boot? I'd be willing to help with testing out various > configurations and > >> reporting back to the group if that would help. > >> > >> [...] > >> > >> Jim > >> > > > Here are some obvious things: > > * accessibility: lubuntu doesn't install brltty*, ibus*, etc. I don't > > know how many of them are background apps or daemons, but they > > probably use memory. > > * integration: lubuntu doesn't seem to come with avahi, nor with a full > > cups stack (e.g. no hplip by default). Again, I don't know the > > impact. Another example is that we build xfce4-session with gnome > > support (to launch gconf, gnome-keyring and some gnome accessibility > > tools). > > (there are probably more low-hanging fruits like that...) > > > This is easy to fix (I can remove all these packages from the default > > install), but is a bit contradictory with the Xubuntu Strategy Document. > > Let's quote its mission statement: > > >> Xubuntu will provide an easy to use distribution, based on Ubuntu, > using > >> Xfce as the graphical desktop, with a focus on integration, usability > >> and performance, with a particular focus on low memory footprint. > > > So we would have low mem footprint + performance, and lose some > > usability and integration. > > FYI, currently, our default package set wrt to accessibility and > > integration is a copy of the ubuntu one (brltty, espeak, ibus, cups > > stack). > > > If we want to fix that, we should probably first try to fix this > > strategy document not to set unreachable objectives with conflicting > > focuses: either we focus on lightness a la lubuntu, and try to cope with > > reduced usability/integration, or we continue what we currently do, but > > we clearly write it in the document ("memory footprint is not > > important"), and then we can stop worrying about all these reviews... > > > When did the goal of Xubuntu change to low memory footprint > without usability? Lubuntu can have lowest memory footprint. Xubuntu > needs to remain a fully usable distribution. > > And, no, we are not interested in throwing out accessibility. Instead, > we should be striving to be very accessible. There is a whole market > out there that can not use Xubuntu, because accessibility fails for > them. > > If you truly believe the stradegy document sets unrealistic goals, why > haven't we discussed those goals? Why don't we decide on realistic > goals and marketing plans? > I don't think the strategy document is completely false, but trying to strive for a lower memory footprint is not completely false. I think we just need to find the golden path in between.
-- Pasi Lallinaho » http://open.knome.fi/ Leader of the Shimmer Project » http://shimmerproject.org/ Webdesigner, graphic artist, Ubuntu member » IRC: knome @ freenode -- xubuntu-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
