The reasons for my asking about alternate implementations: (1) ease of
trying it out for Yarn devs and iteration for bug fixes, improvements and
(2) ease of trying it for app-writers/users to figure out if they should
use the ATS. Again, personally, I don't see this as necessary for the merge
itself, but more so for adoption.

A test implementation would be enough for #1, and would partially address
#2. A more substantial implementation would be nice, but I guess we need to
look at the ROI to decide whether adding that is a good idea.

On completeness, I agree. Further, for some backend implementations, it is
possible that a particular aggregation/query might be possible but too
expensive to turn on. What are your thoughts on provisions for the admin to
turn off some queries/aggregations?

Orthogonal: is there interest here to catch up on ATS specifically one of
the days? May be, during the breaks or after the sessions?

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Li Lu <[email protected]> wrote:

> HDFS or other non-HBase implementations are very helpful. We didn’t focus
> on those implementations in the first milestone because we would like to
> have one working version as a starting point. We can certainly add more
> implementations when the feature gets more mature.
>
> This said, one of my concerns when building these storage implementations
> is “completeness”. We have added a lot of supports to data aggregation. As
> of today, part of the aggregation (flow run aggregation) may be performed
> as HBase coprocessors. When implementing comparable storage impls, it is
> worth noting that one may want to provide some equivalent things to perform
> those aggregations (to really make one implementation “complete enough”,
> or, “interchangeable” to the existing HBase impl).
>
> Li Lu
> > On Jun 21, 2016, at 15:51, Sangjin Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Karthik and Tsuyoshi. Regarding alternate implementations, I'd
> like
> > to get a better sense of what you're thinking of. Are you interested in
> > strictly a test implementation (e.g. perfectly fine in a single node
> setup)
> > or a more substantial implementation (may not scale but needs to work in
> a
> > more realistic setup)?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sangjin
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 2:51 PM, J. Rottinghuis <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Karthik and Tsuyoshi for bringing up good points.
> >>
> >> I've opened https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-5281 to track
> this
> >> discussion and capture all the merits and challenges in one single
> place.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Joep
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:21 AM, Tsuyoshi Ozawa <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks Sangjin for starting the discussion.
> >>>
> >>>>> *First*, if the merge vote is approved, to which branch should this
> be
> >>> merged and what would be the release version?
> >>>
> >>> As you mentioned, I think it's reasonable for us to target trunk and
> >>> 3.0.0-alpha.
> >>>
> >>>>> Slightly unrelated to the merge, do we plan to support any other
> >> simpler
> >>> backend for users to try out, in addition to HBase? LevelDB?
> >>>> We can however, potentially change the Local File System based
> >>> implementation to a HDFS based implementation and have it as an
> alternate
> >>> for non-production use,
> >>>
> >>> In Apache Big Data 2016 NA, some users also mentioned that they need
> HDFS
> >>> implementation. Currently it's pending, but I and Varun tried to work
> to
> >>> support HDFS backend(YARN-3874). As Karthik mentioned, it's useful for
> >>> early users to try v2.0 APIs though it's doesn't scale. IMHO, it's
> useful
> >>> for small cluster(e.g. smaller than 10 machines). After merging the
> >> current
> >>> implementation into trunk, I'm interested in resuming YARN-3874
> >> work(maybe
> >>> Varun is also interested in).
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> - Tsuyoshi
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Varun saxena <[email protected]
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Thanks Karthik for sharing your views.
> >>>>
> >>>> With regards to merging, it would help to have clear documentation on
> >> how
> >>> to setup and use ATS.
> >>>> --> We do have documentation on this. You and others who are
> interested
> >>> can check out YARN-5174 which is the latest documentation related JIRA
> >> for
> >>> ATSv2.
> >>>>
> >>>> Slightly unrelated to the merge, do we plan to support any other
> >> simpler
> >>> backend for users to try out, in addition to HBase? LevelDB?
> >>>> --> We do have a File System based implementation but it is strictly
> >> for
> >>> test purposes (as we write data into a local file). It does not support
> >> all
> >>> the features of Timeline Service v.2 as well.
> >>>> Regarding LevelDB, Timeline Service v.2 has distributed writers and
> >> Level
> >>> DB writes data (log files or SSTable files) to local file system. This
> >>> means there will be no easy way to have a LevelDB based implementation
> >>> because we would not know where to read the data from, especially while
> >>> fetching flow level information.
> >>>> We can however, potentially change the Local File System based
> >>> implementation to a HDFS based implementation and have it as an
> alternate
> >>> for non-production use, if there is a potential need for it, based on
> >>> community feedback. This however, would have to be further discussed
> with
> >>> the team.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Varun Saxena.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Karthik Kambatla [mailto:[email protected]]
> >>>> Sent: 21 June 2016 10:29
> >>>> To: Sangjin Lee
> >>>> Cc: [email protected]
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] merging YARN-2928 (Timeline Service v.2) to
> >> trunk
> >>>>
> >>>> Firstly, thanks Sangjin and others for driving this major feature.
> >>>>
> >>>> Merging to trunk and including in 3.0.0-alpha1 seems reasonable, as it
> >>> will give early access to downstream users.
> >>>>
> >>>> With regards to merging, it would help to have clear documentation on
> >> how
> >>> to setup and use ATS.
> >>>>
> >>>> Slightly unrelated to the merge, do we plan to support any other
> >> simpler
> >>> backend for users to try out, in addition to HBase? LevelDB? I
> understand
> >>> this wouldn't scale, but would it help with initial adoption and
> feedback
> >>> from early users?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Sangjin Lee <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I’d like to open a discussion on merging the Timeline Service v.2
> >>>>> feature to trunk (YARN-2928 and MAPREDUCE-6331) [1][2]. We have been
> >>>>> developing the feature in a feature branch (YARN-2928 [3]) for a
> >>>>> while, and we are reasonably confident that the state of the feature
> >>>>> meets the criteria to be merged onto trunk and we'd love folks to get
> >>>>> their hands on it and provide valuable feedback so that we can make
> it
> >>> production-ready.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In a nutshell, Timeline Service v.2 delivers significant scalability
> >>>>> and usability improvements based on a new architecture. You can
> browse
> >>>>> the requirements/design doc, the storage schema doc, the new
> >>>>> entity/data model, the YARN documentation, and also discussions on
> >>>>> subsequent milestones on
> >>>>> YARN-2928 [1].
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What we would like to merge to trunk is termed "alpha 1" (milestone
> >>>>> 1). The feature has a complete end-to-end read/write flow, and you
> >>>>> should be able to start setting it up and testing it. At a high
> level,
> >>>>> the following are the key features that have been implemented:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - distributed writers (collectors) as NM aux services
> >>>>> - HBase storage
> >>>>> - new entity model that includes flows
> >>>>> - setting the flow context via YARN app tags
> >>>>> - real time metrics aggregation to the application level and the flow
> >>>>> level
> >>>>> - rich REST API that supports filters, complex conditionals, limits,
> >>>>> content selection, etc.
> >>>>> - YARN generic events and system metrics
> >>>>> - integration with Distributed Shell and MapReduce
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are a total of 139 subtasks that were completed as part of this
> >>>>> effort.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We paid close attention to ensure that once disabled Timeline Service
> >>>>> v.2 does not impact existing functionality when disabled (by
> default).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd like to call out a couple of things to discuss in particular.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *First*, if the merge vote is approved, to which branch should this
> be
> >>>>> merged and what would be the release version? My preference is that
> >>>>> *it would be merged to branch "trunk" and be part of 3.0.0-alpha1* if
> >>> approved.
> >>>>> Since the 3.0.0-alpha1 is in active progress, I wanted to get your
> >>>>> thoughts on this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Second*, Timeline Service v.2 introduces a dependency on HBase from
> >>> YARN.
> >>>>> It is not a cyclical dependency (as HBase does not really depend on
> >>> YARN).
> >>>>> However, the version of Hadoop that HBase currently supports lags
> >>>>> behind the Hadoop version that Timeline Service is based on, so there
> >>>>> is a potential for subtle dependency conflicts. We made some efforts
> >>>>> to isolate the issue (see [4] and [5]). The HBase folks have also
> been
> >>>>> responsive in keeping up with the trunk as much as they can.
> >>>>> Nonetheless, this is something to keep in mind.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would love to get your thoughts on these and more before we open a
> >>>>> real voting thread. Thanks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Sangjin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1] YARN-2928: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-2928
> >>>>> [2] MAPREDUCE-6331:
> >>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MAPREDUCE-6331
> >>>>> [3] YARN-2928 commits:
> >>>>> https://github.com/apache/hadoop/commits/YARN-2928
> >>>>> [4] YARN-5045: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-5045
> >>>>> [5] YARN-5071: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-5071
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>

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