Thanx Cde Mdu for raising such an interseting debate. I want to contest some of the assertions you have made as well as agree with you on other areas.
The first issue you rasied is around contestations in the ANC, Your final arguement on the issue seems to be that contetestations were historically and generally discouraged In the ANC. The above assertin is not entirely true, in fact it contradicts the policy framework and understanding around the question of Leadership. Rememeber one of the key tenants of our organsational /internal democracy is contested leadership practice/principle. This essentially means that there is nothing wrong with leadership contestation in the ANC as long as it is done within the Policy Framework and political understanding of safequarding Unity and Cohesion. We can also refer to few incidences were Leadership in the ANC was contested at the NEC level, including Preisdency. Remember in the late twenties President Gumede was removed, so was President Xuma in 1949. I agree with your overall spirit that where possilbe Contestations should be avoided, but equelly the process and the approach of avoiding/discouraging contestations can suffocate internal democracy if not handled well. My other arguement is that Seniority can at times be contested and subjective, depending on conditions. Take for example, if in 1991 Cde OR wanted to stand against Mandela. It was not going to be easy to simply tell one to stop down. In fact it was going to be a healthy contestation of 2 people with unqesutionable credentials, so no matter which name wins, Conference would have emerged with a quality leadership. Cde Mdu, let us not elavate the inetrvention made in 1991 in the aborted contestation between TM and Cde Chris as a good model/approach on Leadership. What happned there was extraodinary step taken by Leadership, in fact my unlce who was a delegate stiil maintain that it was a robbery against democracy. On the Shilowa question, I am fundamentally differing with you. One of the key priniples of our orgasantion is Democratic Centralism, we have awalys embraced and maintained the fact decisions of higher structured binds lower strcutures and all memebers of the organasations. Cde Shilowa when he was Premier and Chaiperson officiated on many meetings which took decisions that others were not comfortable with, in fact some were very painfull decisions. But Cadres never resigned as leaders and deployees, they were discilpine. It cannot be that every time a decision is taken , you suddenly feel uncomfortable with it and resign. Let me be practical, remember you and i served in the same Leadership(Src and sasco), there was a time when NEC of SASCO took a suprising decision by disragarding nominations of Brabches on who must be President at TUT. I remember you did not understand that decision, you were angry as I was, but you could not take a decision to resign. In fact I remember that as a discipline cadre, you went and calm emotions down, you explained to Comarades that NEC has taken a decision and such we needed to move forward. On the question of the role of the ANC Veterans prior and post Polokwane, My Persoanl obersavation is that they were generally silent. But I do nt blame them, the previous NEC definetly created a hostile and antagonistic atmosphere,werein Comrades including Veterans were generally afraied to raise issues. Remember Mandela once tried to raise his own views on many matters of Goverment including HIV/AIDS, but instead of enagaging him, the previous Leadership attacked Him, qustioned his motives and agenda etc. On a bigger Picture, let us hope that the creation of the veterans League will change the situation. We definetly need the experience,quidence and leadership from our Veterans.Remember it was diificult for them to contribute meanigfully bcuz they were not organised, whent they did speak as individuals, they were attacked. Finally I agree that the President of the ANCYL give a very good,focus and sober interview last night. Perhaps the Problem is that the Media only engage the President wehn they want to tale about issues of leadership and divisions in the ANC. Let the President be given coverage on a variety of issues including Youth Development, Social Challnges,Political Economy etc > > Molo Qabane > I think you raising a very sober and healthy debate indeed. However you > seem to forget basic points such as why we as the PYA and the Left felt > that TM should not stand for the third term. Firstly our position was > that we do not want two centers of power, secondly our democracy is > still fragile to alter the constitution in order to accommodate comrade > TM's third term. And we also felt there was a need to change leadership > as it was no longer engaging the other alliance partners especially the > left. There are so many points I can raise to prove that e.g. the > implementation of GEAR by the 96 class project. > > Mbazima an "individual loyalist". I particularly say this because I > feel that if Mbazima was not clear, he was supposed to consult the > leadership of the ANC to seek clarity, we always seek clarity if we are > not clear, that is the culture of the movement. Now to bow out without > seeking clarity justify our thinking that he is a Mbeki loyalist. I do > not thnk that Malema or anyone who defend Jacob Zuma is a Zuma loyalist > simply because these people are doing so guided by the constitution of > the organization which each and every member must abide by. Members of > the organisation must explain and defend the position of the ANC > wherever they are, even at 12 midnight. > > Forward ever backward never, Forward with the ANC leadership Forward > Socialism is my future build it now > > Mr Sifiso S. Ntanzi > Provincial Research Technician > ND Agric: Animal Production > Tel 012 672 9118 > Fax 012 665 1563 > Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cell 079 878 2323 > > >>>> "Mduduzi H Vilakazi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2008/10/07 10:01 AM >>>> > > Let us engage!! > > Contestations were highly discouraged by leaders of the ANC. At the > unbanning congress of the ANC TM and Hani were both nominated and > available for the position of the Deputy President. They were both > withdrawn from the race by availing someone whom they regarded as > their > political father, Sisulu. Thus no contestation continued. > > The issue of popularity and (popular) demand never rose during the > exile era. Modise was popular in the exile camps to an extent that he > could have rose to the ANC Presidency with ease but respected the > unwritten convictions in the ANC of seniority and open leadership > engagement (thus could not use his popularity to contest Tambo). What > happened to our beloved movement in the current dispensation? Are > leadership discussions limited to the final lists disseminated to > branches? Is block voting, the only solution to arrive at the > leadership > resolution in congress? > > Equally, the notion that Mbeki was not suppose to stand in Polokwane > applies to Zuma. They are both liable for the “divisions” within > the > ANC. Someone regarded as their senior or their equivalent should have > been brought in (Not Tokyo) solely to discourage the two from > contestations. This means that the others in the top six from both > sides > should have been discouraged in the same way the presidential office > should have been treated, they are as well liable for the damages > caused > by this unhealthy contestation. > > It is in the above backgrounds that the party (SACP) always have > uncontested leadership. This does not suggest that democratic > principles > are not upheld but elements that are divisive are highly discouraged. > In > fact, leadership elected out of consensus quickly deals with > developmental issues as resolved by congress than “contested” > leadership > that has to deal with organizational healing and unity before > exercising > its intended responsibilities. A lesson should be drawn from the party > on how contestations are avoided. > > I am deliberately raising this debate in order to spark a debate on > respect of seniors. Where were these seniors pre and in Polokwane? If > they were there, what is it that they said? Who listened to them, if > they said anything? If they were not there, why are they quiet? Did > our > behaviour scared them away or is the current situation no longer > conducive for them to make some interventions. > > If those who supported TM are seen as enemies of the ANC (or loyalists > of individuals), so are those who supported JZ. The unhealthy > contestation in Polokwane will live with us for the next minimum of 30 > years. It was a lesson that people should not be happy when > contestations take place in the ANC at all levels. Contestation means > that all avenues of political engagements were explored and none > seemed > to provide a solution, thus contestation became the only option. > > I do not agree that one party was wrong while the other had a right to > contest. If there is anything that divides the ANC is en route to and > contestation in Polokwane. > > Let me commend the President of the Youth League for a matured > interview last night. I agree with him, aggrieved members should be > given a hearing than to be booted out in the organization. I as well > agree that TM as a member of the organization should assist the ANC > during the campaign for the 2009 general elections. Let me give my > understanding on the resignation of Mbazima. > > I have patiently followed the discussion on Mbazima’s resignation > but > with no major principles brought in the discussion. Mbazima raised > certain principled standings and misread by ourselves. Maybe, we are > too > passionate and excited about the triumphalists’ victory in Polokwane > to > a level where we have no further analysis but to quickly suggest that > one is a TM loyalist. > > I do not want to dismiss the loyalist view (but it should apply both > sides of the ANC factions) but my view is as follows: > > Mbazima was a deployee of the ANC in Government (Political head in > Gauteng). All decisions of the ANC should find expressday political > work of the deployees in government. The NEC is > constitutionally the highest decision making body in between congress. > Mbeki was a deployee leading government (Political head – South > African > government). > > In this instance, as a provincial head, He was supposed to brief the > provincial cabinet on the resolution of the NEC to recall TM. He was > expected to explain the reasons behind the recalling. He was expected > to > respond to questions from the legislature (should such arise) on the > recalling of the state President. > > He is swimming in a pool of confusion on how recalling a deployee > unites an organization. He can obviously fail to respond to such > questions on such an issue at the above mentioned forums which would > constitute organizational ill-discipline. In order to avoid such an > embarrassment, he decided to step down as a political head in Gauteng. > > Was not his resignation the “right thing to do”? Was Mbazima > supposed > to stay on to embarrass both the ANC and Government on his failure to > defend the NEC resolution? I think that we are being unfair in > thinking > that people’s resignations are solely because they are someone’s > loyalists. > > The call by Malema to “Kill for Zuma” is a loyalist statement. It > was > and is not viewed as such by the triumphalists who were quick to point > out that Mbazima is a TM loyalist. The factional engagements by some > among us raise eyebrows on their synthesis level of political > maturity. > Being quick to label some as loyalists of TM forgetting the loyalists > of > JZ makes one to wonder what informs their ideas. > > If others call for one to resign, they say “do the right thing” > because > it suits them. Now someone in the name of Mbazima did the right thing, > because they did not make the call, it is not right (He is an Mbeki > loyalist). I want to maintain that Mbazima did the right thing to > voluntarily resign before unnecessary calls are made by those who are > impatient to use state resources for their personal aggrandizement. > > In future, let us all accept voluntary resignations in the same way we > accept forced resignations. Finally, let us focus on 2009 general > elections. > This message and any attachments relating to official business of the > Mpumalanga Provincial Government (MPG) is proprietary to the MPG and > intended for the original addressee only. > The message may contain information that is confidential and subject > to > legal privilege. Any views expressed in this message are those of the > individual sender. > > If you receive this message in error, please notify the original > sender > immediately and destroy the original message. 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