I'm begining to wonder if Sithembewena is a real person or a fake. Is he using his real name or not. The reference to the pseudonym by Cde Alex has left me confused.
Sithembewena is that your real name and are you a member of the party or just a faceless person? >From what you have been saying and the vigour with which you are trying to drive your point home I must say that you are not a coward, unless you are hiding behind a pseudonym. Zico had it coming, and what perfect timing to suspend him. So don't be surprised. I think at the moment the details of his suspension (as far as I know) are sketchy. And it doesn't help us much to debate based on what we don't have sufficient details about. Maybe you can enlighten us for the sake of this debate. Apparently you seem to be talking in parables. You make veiled allegations against Alex when you say: "come out in the open and announce your participation in the cooked alligations that lead to the suspension of the six caders" But at the end we need to see to it that the whole disciplinary process is carried through in a fair and just manner and that the two rules of natural justice are applied and a finding is made regarding the matter. We must be able to know why the comrades were suspended, the seriousness of the charges and how the DC will deal with such. The quicker the better. And when all is said and done we must respect the decision of the DC. At the end of it all I believe we will still be free to discuss about issues of discipline, freedom of speech, debate, the SACP's role in society and how to deal with those we differ with in the Party. I think Cde Sabelo must begin to give us lessons in creative writing, grammar, spelling, punctuation, editing etc. Though it is true that we must polish our writing that should not be an impediment to express one's view. Yes Cde Sithembewena must try to improve his writing but we can still undersatnd his point. Foward to democratic dictatorship of the Proletariat -- Thando Tshangela http://tsuai.blogspot.com/ 2008/12/11 Mike Ramukumba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Are you trying to suggest that this forum is for intellectuals only? I read > a lot of contributions here that have a lot of grammatical errors, but I > still get the message cadres are trying to rely. Don't try to hold us in the > forum hostage to petty English superiority. This is a YCL forum for the poor > and the working class, don't blame us for the lack of advanced education > that you may have had, blame the apartheid regime. Allow us the freedom to > express ourselves anyhow we can. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sabelo gina > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:16 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Fw: The Menshevisation Of The Party > > > > Maqabane, > > > > It would be nice to have a contribution with fewer spelling mistakes, given > the fact that computers have a tool to do this. This might sound like is a > minor issue but it becomes very hard to read the whole contribution. > > > > Sabelo > > 2008/12/11 sithembewena tsembeyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Dear comdrate Alex yes I am not hiding my identity in any case we all > participate in this furom for the love of the revolution and the party, stop > being idiological concubine and deal with the discusion not me I am who I > say I am all the way otherwise or so.In any case since you were never > informed about the difference between activists and revolutionaries, I think > now is the time that you should be given a brief political lesson. It > is poeple like you who do not care about the overall wellbeing of the > overwhelming majority who in the South African case are the working class, > who will never know that personalities are a fregment of our revolution. I > choose to be a BOLSHEVIK becoz historically they are the ones who refuse to > alline themselves with the Menshevik position that was in favour of the > rassian petty Bourgoisie at the expence of the working class, hance > the Rassian revolution took place in 1917. it is clear to me that you are > not awear that communist should not alline themselfs or seek to advance the > interest of the enemy class. name calling and intimidations are stratergies > and tecticks of the petty Bourgoisie, so if you inspire to be a > Maxist-Lenenist which you are not, you should know that I cant present > myself as an individual becouse I do not have an interest of my own separate > from that of the working class.Activists are found in defferent forms even > those that actively took part in advancing the Impirialist agenda, have got > the right to pronounce themselves as activists. but revolutionaries are > those who should change the world since philosophers have already > interprited it. Given time you`ll grow to learn that there is nothing like > freedom of expresion in the SACP. When Caders like Mazibuko Jara were trying > to provoke a discusion in the party by asking whearther "is our fleg RED or > JZ" he was victimised but again it is scientifically proven that the are > those who are intolarent to descending views within the party proof of that > was the first suspention of Phillip Dextor who was trying to provoke > discussion. So if any one was to refrain from cowardise that person should > be you, come out in the open and announce your participation in the cooked > alligations that lead to the suspension of the six caders. Your idioligical > imatuarity made you not to have faith in constititional process of the > party. The alligations about the six caders were suposed to be procidurally > been raised with the PWC in Gauteng but since your intention did not have > anything to do with principle and loyalty you lost faith in the PWC and the > PEC after realising that your alligations had no substance, for your > information we know you owe your provincial Secritaraet position to some in > the CC.lastly I think you should refrain from being somebodies > fandamentalist and begin to take working class seriosely.Socialisim is the > Future. > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Alex M. Mashilo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Alex M. Mashilo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Fw: The Menshevisation Of The Party > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 2:39 AM > > > > The cowards who mask themselves behind pseudonyms in an operation to > discredit decisions from the SACP Central Committee among others by way of > trying to turn the YCL forum as a platform of expressing feelings rather > than objective engagements are not only wasting their time and energy, they > are also interrupting our schedules unnecessarily so. > > > > We shall also not be threatened by an adoption of revolutionary names to > advance counter-revolutionary, anti-communist agendas. As Marxists-Leninists > we relate to both persons and formations not from what they say of > themselves, but from clarity between that and what they really are and do in > practice. We are not obsessed with appearances. We pass over from appearance > to essence in every name used, situation whatsoever. > > The writer below sounds to be having knowledge that her/his own activities > are incompatible with the Party principles. Her/His stories written bellow > are evidence that s/he must appear before the SACP Disciplinary process, > which he avoids by using a pseudonym masquerading as a Bolshevik, WHICH S/HE > IS CLEARLY NOT. > > Lastly, any comrades facing charges in the Party are presumed innocent, > until found otherwise after a due, credible process. I'm certain that the > Central Committee Disciplinary Committee has no reason in principle to > refuse any person to give evidence for or against any charges on any accused > appearing before it. BUT, SUCH WITNESSES MUST BREAK FROM COWARDICE, BE > THEMSELVES AND USE THEIR REAL NAMES; THEY ARE FREE TO APPEAR ANYWHERE AS > THEY REALLY ARE. That is part of the freedom of expression fought for by our > Party which was banned in 1950 under the Suppression of Communism Act. > > Truly, > > Mashilo, Alex Mohubetswane > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: sithembewena tsembeyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2008/12/8 > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Fw: The Menshevisation Of The Party > To: > > --- On Mon, 12/8/08, sithembewena tsembeyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: sithembewena tsembeyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: The Menshevisation Of The Party > To: "Dominic Tweedie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008 , 4:56 AM > > The resent suspension of Zico Bolshevik Tamela and other progressive caders > of the party from the Bolshevik province of Gauteng is a clear indication > intolerance and stalinisim within the party, We will not be surprised to see > further suspension of other Bolshevik leaders in the province or the > disbanding of Gauteng PEC, as Gauteng has always been the voice of reason > with in the party. > > > > Some within the CC are beholding grudges with cders, Especially those that > ideologically pro founded them, Sometime last year in the ACC the then > provincial Secretary of the Party Cader Vishwas Satgar was insulted and > attacked in an uncommunist manner, to make matters worse those who insulted > Cader Vish went to an extend of attiring racist remarks to the fallow > comrade. > > > > All these uncomradely attacks took place took place in the presences of the > GS, and entire CC, yet failed to protect the cader, Simply becoz it was > advancing a ceirtain agenda of those who claim to be the representatives of > the working class, Whilest in reality they are representing their personal > interests. > > > > The partys Central Commitee members seem to have forgoten, the fact that > communist caders are the most advanced and resolute section of the working > class, and tha they do not have an interest of their own separate from that > of the working class. Suspending Bolsheviks caders like Ziko, Tengo, and the > others sugests that the is a tendency or a move by those that are > financially comfortable within the party to transform the SACP into a > permanent socialst desk of the ANC. > > > > These susupended Bolsheviks are possing as threat to the lumpent bourgoiesie > that are curently possing as representatives of the working class, whilest > they are pure capitalist at haert and agents of the impirialist agenda. > Futher more these Bolsheviks are suspended for advancing a maxist leninist > concept. A truely communist concept that seeks to advance working class > agenda of over throwing the bourgoie suprimacy. These Bolsheviks > consistancy on the state power question is a thorn in ass of the > bourgoiesie and their consistancy irritates the bourgoiesie, therefore the > lumpent bourgoiesie with in party who are also the drivers of > pro-impirialist agenda decided to > > suspend these Bolshevik. The CC might succeed in destroying these > classicall caders, as they are sinoir to other within the CC, but will have > to note that the might of the working class has never been defeated. History > will JUDGE those THUGS who are busy triying to destroy the communist party > in a brutal way. If fighting for the dictatorship of the proletariat is a > crime in the communist party I therefore on behalf of these BOLSHEVIKS > plead guilty as charged, > > > > As caders from the bolshevic province we are tampted to believe that this > susupention of Cde Zico and the others was triggered by the firm and > uncompromising stand of these true representatives of the working class. > > > > PATRIA O MUERTE!! > > VENCEREMOS > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Dominic Tweedie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Dominic Tweedie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: Gauteng on th right path > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008 , 12:18 AM > > Dear Cde Sithembewena, > > > > Zico's cronies got me suspended from the branch last year and wanted to > chuck me out of the Party. > > > > The year before that, it was Vishwas Satgar who tried to have me thrown out. > > > > I have known Zico for many years. When he was suspended from SATAWU I did > not shun him. Little did I know that he would try to work the same > suspension business on me. > > > > When Dinga was reinstated by NUMSA, I rejoiced, even though Dinga had been > Zico's chief prosecutor against me last year. > > > > This time it's different. These guys are accused of using their positions in > the Party to establish another party, just like Mluleki George and the > others did in the ANC. > > > > The suspension is done by the CC. The disciplinary process will be done > properly. You have to accept it, comrade, until the process is complete. > > > > My advice to you is: Do not lobby in this way for Zico and the others. Do > not make allegations of ulterior motives the way you have done in this > message to me. > > > > Allow the constitutional process to go through. > > > > With best wishes, > > > > Dominic. > > > > > > > > From: sithembewena tsembeyi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 05 December 2008 09:58 AM > To: Dominic Tweedie > Subject: Gauteng on th right path > > > > Dominic I know over the years we have seen Gauteng being a victim of > secumstances but we as the constitiance of this movement have to say it > clearly, I know that we have seen it bileteraly that it was a plan of other > fuctions that after the leadership of Ziko and Nkosi, they were not wanted, > this says it clearly that some within the movement donot respect the > democratic process of the party in the province, Ziko and Nkosi have done > all its worth to keep the party alive in the province, yet they are being > dealth with, We have seen Nkosi being a true communist, one that will stand > for the libaration and betterness of the poor and the working class, is this > not what the party stand for. > > > > I know I might today been seen as a reactionary, but to the true esence of > the matter we have no solid grounds to deal with the privincial leadership, > infact we should be looking closely how to assist the province to do futher > better for is people, I have not mailed you to cource conflict nor > vistimisation of any of the leaders, the fact is you need to open up clearly > so and see what damage you may course in dealing with these province, we > have seen things unfolding and it is of true believe that non of any other > province has performed to the idialogy of socialist than the Gauteng > comministly so. > > > > Ziko might have been suspended due to some inconcivety that I might not > know, but for the fect that the provincial chair is been ploted against I > find it desterbing for the party as a whole, and we can not say that one who > has on open and indipenden view of the status core of the party must be > dealth with in any case we have seen the best leader and preferably Jerremy > can agree too. > > > > Dominic I know you have been the greates writer of the communiist sociaty > but know you need to over center the counter revolutionary that might be > under way especially when it comes to dealing with Nkosiphendule the > provincial Chair. > > > > Hoping you will find this in order > > > > > > > -- > MSEROBATSE > > ________________________________ > Disclaimer > > This email and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential and > proprietary information. This information is private and protected by law > and, accordingly, if you are not the intended recipient, you are requested > to delete this entire communication immediately and are notified that any > disclosure, copying or distribution of or taking any action based on this > information is prohibited. > Emails cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses. The > sender does not accept any liability or responsibility for any interception, > corruption, destruction, loss, late arrival or incompleteness of or > tampering or interference with any of the information contained in this > email or for its incorrect delivery or non-delivery for whatsoever reason or > for its effect on any electronic device of the recipient. > If verification of this email or any attachment is required, please request > a hard-copy version. > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. 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