i think we should look at reason why exist as the broad mass democratic movement.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:44 PM, morgan phaahla <[email protected]>wrote: > Comrades, we seem to have a consensus on the timing of the succession > debate. As it stands the debate was misplaced and not even appropriate. In > fact, there was no compelling reason for the call to be made - let alone > a need for it. > > If you twin both Floyd and Alex's submissions you will come to > a determination that we come a long way with this debate and we seem to > allow agitators to repeat history. All cadres of the movement know very well > that the succession debate belongs to the ANC branches not anywhere else. It > cannot always be spelled out to all and sundry that this is not a > happy-go-lucky organisation but a movement of protocols? > > It's cause that anyone comrade who > wishes to introduce a debate must channel it to the appropriate forum not > anywhere he/she likes. As a youth movement, we must stand up against > agitators and call order where it's necessary to defend the ANC culture and > traditions. > > We don't have to stand on sideline when an alliance partner causes the > confusion and get away with it because they are perceived to be kingmakers. > There is no such a thing in the ANC - power belongs to the branches. We do > not have so-called kingmakers as such things are foreign concepts created by > the media. > > In a nutshell, let's not get distracted when there is a plethora of issues > on the table as per mandates from Polokwane. We need to keep asking the NEC > if it has been able to institute a specific programme aimed at restoring the > unity and coherence of the ANC, the Alliance and the broader democratic > movement. If not why? Because this is the very programme that hits at the > core of the ANC's communications strategy at all levels of the organisation, > including the Alliance and the broader democratic movement. > > The centre must hold, maqabane! > > Morgan Phaahla, > Ekurhuleni > > > "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes your ideology." - > Joe Slovo > > --- On *Sun, 7/5/09, Nyiko Floyd Shivambu <[email protected]>* wrote: > > > From: Nyiko Floyd Shivambu <[email protected]> > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Succession debate - the problems of short > memory > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:29 AM > > I personally do no have a specific view around the whole succession > debate, particularly concerning on who's supposed to start it. As a loyal > member of both the YCL and ANC YL, I understand and agree with my > organisations' positions on the issue. We however should not distort recent > past history, for a simple reason that it is recent past history.My memory > tells me that these are the facts: > > - The ANC YL 22nd National Congress in Nasrec in 2004 did not resolve > on ANC succession. > - The 2004 Gauteng Provincial Congress had a discussion on leadership > issues towards the 52nd National Conference and the ANC YL said it's too > early and could be divisive. > - The ANC YL NEC resolved to support President Zuma for President and > went into a consultation with ANC YL structures. > - When Smuts Nghonyama responded affirming Gauteng's approach, then the > YL entered the debate premised first on the rights of President JZ and > secondly on the principle of two centres of power. > - The succession towards 52nd Conference was objectively underpinned by > strong organisational and ideological consequences, reflected recently by > the manifestations of the Conference aftermath, with the defeated faction > breaking away for political, ideological, personal, social and economic > reasons. > - The succession towards 52nd Conference was very divisive of all Mass > Democratic Movement structures including COSATU, SACP, ANC, YCL, ANC YL, > Parliamentary Caucus and government institutions in all spheres, and public > entities (SABC, IDC, DBSA, etc).... in one way or another, all these > structures suspended or expelled leaders on issues which were perceptibly > or > genuinely linked to the succession battles. > - The succession debate led to the abuse of State institutions at all > levels, including the Criminal Justice System and the intelligence. > - The succession towards 52nd National Conference also assisted to rid > the movement of counter-revolutionary forces within our structures, and > because it took time, assisted in the consolidation of a common perspective > moving forward. > - We have derived great and possibly durable lessons on the succession > towards Polokwane and certainly we cannot make the same mistake, whether we > take the issue now or later. > > These realities could possibly assist us in understanding both the YCL and > ANC YL positions around the need to pursue/avoid the discussion now. I serve > in both structures' national executive committee levels, and opine with > almost certainty that if both were to pronounce the entirety of the > leadership collectives for the 2012 Conference, there would be differences, > except on President. This might lead to strengthening each organisations' > positions and possible divergence, even on areas we could agree on moving > forward. In its very nature, the succession debate is very subjective and > could erupt people's emotions, thus blurring sober judgment on what is right > or wrong. Whether the debate starts now or not is not the issue, but the > issue is how differently do we handle the succession debate as compared to > the period towards the 52nd National Conference. All revolutionaries will > agree that our reasons for starting the succession debate now, cannot be the > same as the reasons why it was started earlier towards the 52nd National > Conference. I believe there should be greater involvement of our > organisations' members on what they believe should be leadership post 2012. > Otherwise I agree with both the ANC YL and YCL positions...... and these > positions I can safely say are not personal positions of Julius Malema and > David Masondo respectively, but organisational positions, which should be > defended by all loyal members, avoiding separating leaders from their > organisations. > > Floyd > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Alex M. Mashilo > <[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> >> In 2002 the ANC held it 51st National Conference, followed two years >> later, in 2004 by the ANCYL National Conference. From the YL conference the >> stage was set for succession dedate, with the organisation arguing that >> comrade JZ must in the next Conference of the ANC, to be held three years >> later, in 2007, elected to succeed Thabo Mbeki as the movement's president. >> This was linked to comrade JZ taking over as SA's president five years >> later, in 2009. >> >> Thabo Mbeki did not like the YL's discussion. He said it was too early, >> and that the ANC shall at the right time determine according to its >> established procedures its next NEC which includes the president. Little he >> make it clear that he was actually engaging with the YL's substative >> proposal, with his position being that he did not like comrade JZ to become >> the movement's president in 2007 and the SA's president in 2009, and that he >> will acually contest and do many other things to gain a third term as ANC's >> president. >> >> Those who don't quickly shut-down their memories will also recall that a >> year (2003) after the ANC's 51st National Conference (2002, the ANC NEC >> issued a statement stipulating that going forward the president of the ANC >> may not be the president of the republic. Thabo Mbeki held interviews with >> SABC in which he further motivated this position. Little did he make it >> clear that he wanted to continue as ANC president in from 2007, four years >> later. >> >> Following the 2004 and 2005 national and provincial elections two newly >> appointed premiers in Limpopo (Sello Moloto, who later joined COPE) and KZN >> (Sbusiso Ndebele), and a Mayor (Mlungisi Hlogwane, who later zigzagged >> between COPE and ANC) for Sedibeng Municipality in Gauteng, went over to >> call for the constitution of SA to be amended so Thabo Mbeki can serve a >> third term as SA's president.Could this have been without tactical >> coordination? Many of us questioned. >> >> But it was in 2004 that Thabo Mbeki condemed the YL for opening the >> succession debate unnecessarily and too early. >> >> What are the similarities and different about the succession debate now >> and then? >> >> Two years ago (2007) the ANC held its 52nd National Conference. The period >> is the same (two years later if not almot)from ANC Nationl Conferences (51st >> and 52nd respectively) between the YL's 2004 proposal for comrade JZ to be >> elected ANC president in 2007 and Cosatu's 2009 proposal for comrade JZ to >> continue as ANC and SA's president in 2012. Another similarity is that the >> country went to general elections in 2004, as it has been the case in >> 2009.Yet comrade Julius Malema, current serving president of the YL, like >> Thabo Mbeki did to the YL in 2004, condemed Cosatu for raising the debate in >> what is called too early. Malema uses one of the similar reasons used by >> Mbeki when he, augmented by Smuts Ngonyama who since went to COPE, condemed >> the YL. Like Thabo Mbeki, Malema argued that the succession debate is not >> important now but service delivery is. >> >> What is different though, is that in 2004 the proposal for comrade JZ to >> become president of the ANC in 2007 was made by the YL, and now (2009) it's >> has been made by Cosatu, supported by the YCL. >> >> It is now clear whose interests did Thabo Mbeki represent when he >> hypocriticallycondemed the so-called early succession discussion. Whose >> interest does Malema represent when he wrongfully and passionately (without >> even visiting the recent history of the YL on the issue of >> succession)condemed Cosatu for openly stating its preference for comrade JZ >> to continue in 2012 as both ANC and SA's president? >> >> In the Sasco NGC (1 - 5 July 2009) YCL National Chairperson comrade David >> Masondo provided political education in a limited time slot. Indeed the ANC >> is the organisational leader of the alliance, the allaince partners have an >> inherent interest who therefore leads the ANC and how to express this is >> only a matter for tactical consideratios. With the sort of response that >> comrade Julius Malema echoed, it appears Cosatu was tactically correct to >> state its preference openely. Otherwise our history illustrates that when >> Thabo Mbeki condemed the YL in 2004 for raising the succession debate 'too >> early' the mn was actually busy making sure he will stay on. >> >> To agree with comrade David Masondo, it will be utopian to suggest or >> agree to be pursuaded that other forces are not busy discussing succession >> in the corridors. In fact, making open pronouncements as Cosatu and the YCL >> did this year (2009) abount comrade JZ continuing in 2012 and 2014 as >> president of the ANC and SA, and as the YL did in 2004, threaten the >> interests of those who are not only discussing succession in the corridors >> but who are also preparing in the same sphere for their preferences to >> emerge. >> >> A re boleleng! >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > -- mtkunene --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] . -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
