Cde Zulu, I can not agree more with you that "we must be able to debate and listen to one another. Rules of engagement must learned by all comrades.Arrogance really does not assist anyone." Especially because there is a tendency particularly to self-anointed 'senior' (usually because of urgent and easy exposure to reading material) comrades to (sub)consciously confuse comradely correction of some cadre's theoretical and practical blunders with misguided arrogance. Although in a slightly different context, Paulo Freire (1993: 75-76) would have said "unfortunately...in their (the Sisulus of this world) desire to obtain the support of the (her views)...revolutionary leaders often fall for the banking line of planning program content from the top down. They forget (because of the comfort life their now live in by virtue of being ministers)that their fundamental objective is to fight along side the people..." for better working conditions and better payments etc. I pause. T.S. Zondi
>>> mandla mndebele <[email protected]> 10/2/2009 12:18 PM >>> Cdes My personal view is that, the attitude and arrogance presented by Cde Minister is informed by fear of being striped off the power. Usually being in ipower is both comfortable and discomfort. It is comfortable when all the receiptians are compliant to the power imposed to them, but power becomes uncomfortable when the receiptains shows a high level of wanting to exercise their rights to express themselves about their conditions. Cde Minister enjoys power in such a way that she would not like to see the establishment of a defense force union, bcoz she thinks that this will disempower people like her the authority to continue wanting to convert and convince people to accept poor working conditions. The minister must move out of her comfort zone and understand that transformation of all the sectors including the defense force is our democratical mandate. I do not see the right that the defense force seeks to exercise leading to them undermining their commanding chief, but a way to follow instructions and orders from their commanding chief with an open mind that recognise the fact that they are human beings at the end of the day. Commissions have established in the past with specific objective, but date only a few of the have managed to reach or their mandated expectations and deliverable, Trade unions on the other hand has a very clear and unique mandate, therefore our respected minister must wake up from her known and unknown fears and avoid misusing her constitutional powers to supress other humans' rights. Amandla ! From: Mandla HK In Palestine/Israel , On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Simo Zulu <[email protected]> wrote: Cdes Indeed ''The announcement of the establishment of the South African National Defence Force Commission (SANDFC) has elicited a number of responses'' as the Minister writes.But I cannot agree with her view when she says these responses are 'unfortunately most of them are ill-informed'. On what basis does she come to this conclusion.Unions represent workers on the number of issues and that ought to respected as the Constitution of our country allows/stipulates, I believe our Minister is aware of these things. Or we must as comrades educate one another ( including our Minister) on the role of trade unions & that being a member of a union is not a priviledge but a right.Trade unions amongst other things, represent workers on fighting for a living wage, better working conditions etc. These issues can be raises and resolved by trade unions in the bargaining council with the employer not in a commission that exludes labour reprsentatives. A Commission is set because of the fear on the part of the Minister or the ANC of the politicization of the defence force and that the defence force might not listen to the commands of the Commander in Chief. This argument really does not convince me, that on these basis then trade unions need to be barred from the defence force. As one has already reffered to to some of roles of the trade union, do we have to expect that this union will also champion the interests of workers. Im really worried about the composition of the commission.Will this commission really be able to address labour related issues that concern workers like salary increment amongst others or this commission will just instil discipline and enforce their decision on soldiers. Or will they pray that the challanges faced by workers will go away without worker representation on that commission. She cames with this attitude, I know better and no one cannot tell me anything hence she will take it upon her self to amongst other things ''educate" COSATU whatever this means on issues relating to the SANDFC vs having trade unions in the defence force. We must be able to debate and listen to one another. Rules of engagement must learned by all comrades.Arrogance really does not assist anyone.It clearly does not solve the critical issues raised by the trade unions in the defence force which must correctly so be addressed as a matter of urgency. Our country cannot be defended by underpaid workers, however patriotic they might be. Amandla!!!! From: Siyabonga Zama <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 8:44:42 AM Subject: FW: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Discipline a major priority Cde Lindiwe is now living in another planet, her attitude was really uncalled for and it undermined the legitimacy of the grievances of the members of the defence force. The minister failed dismally to trigger a debate on the representation of the members of the defence force within the force instead she became very arrogant as a result she was humiliated by the court -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of KGALE GODFREY MAILA Sent: 02 October 2009 08:12 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Discipline a major priority This woman [Lindiwe Sisulu] has proclaimed herself some sort of a "super minister". Her views clearly undermines a spirit of open engagement: a platform that has been established by a consequence of Polokwane. She has become very arrogant. I think Malema must take her hands on. Soldiers are workers, period! Funky Mpumalanga >>> [email protected] 10/01/09 6:57 PM >>> <!--[if !vml ]--><!--[endif]--> Discipline a major priority Lindiwe Sisulu, The Star, 1 October 2009 THE ANNOUNCEMENT of the establishment of the South African National Defence Force Commission (SANDFC) has elicited a number of responses. Unfortunately most of them are ill-informed. To start with, the conceptualisation of the commission precedes the illegal strike by the soldiers. Secondly, a suggestion that government and the ANC intend to subvert the constitution or the determination of the Constitutional Court with regard to representation of the soldiers is misleading and uninformed. It is true however that the events of the march have led us to rethink the issue of the unions in the military. The president as commander-in-chief has boldly expressed a view shared by many South Africans on this matter. By their very nature unions are political. Their presence in the military creates two problems. First they would undermine the command and control structure in the defence force. Secondly, they would create another centre of authority which could work against that of the Chief of the Defence Force and the Commander-in-Chief. No self-respecting country can allow this. I have made a number of public commitments. Prominently was to establish a good and strong working relationship and dynamic partnership with the Portfolio Committee on Defence. The second was to look at the condition of service of members of the defence force. I explicitly stated that "we are seized with the matter and I would like to engage each one of them through the proper management structures to see how we can attend to these. We are acutely aware that the state of readiness of the SANDF depends primarily on the morale of our soldiers." I am stating these commitments to underscore the fact that the illegal strike by members of the South African National Defence Union (Sandu) was unnecessary, irresponsible and mischievous. Firm steps have been taken to deal with behaviour to ensure that discipline in the Defence Force remains a defining feature. To address the unhappy relationship between the public service and the environment of the defence force of command and control, I indicated in my budget vote that I was considering making a separate dispensation for the Defence Force. The need for such a dispensation was succinctly articulated by the president in his observation that "there are few components of the state which have such a high calling; which demands selflessness, bravery in the face of danger, the highest levels of discipline and absolute loyalty to the constitution... The discipline of the SANDF must at all times be kept at the highest professional standards to ensure the public's confidence in the SANDF's ability to protect and defend the people and the interest of the Republic of South Africa." Definite steps have been undertaken towards those commitments. The establishment of this SANDF Service Commission is the latest in a series of steps aimed at this objective. The SANDF Service Commission has precedence. During my tenure as Minister of Intelligence, we crafted a separate dispensation for the Intelligence Services in appreciation and acknowledgement of the distinctive role they play in society. The defence force is not any different. Indeed, it was recognition of this distinction that legislators determined that the Labour Relations Act should not be applicable to the army, the Intelligence and Secret Services. So, the suggestion that the ministry wants to subvert the constitution and the law is baseless. The National Defence Force Service Commission will assist us to address expeditiously matters affecting the SANDF so that our national security is never compromised. In appointing this commission, I have been mindful of the provisions of the Constitution and section 2 of the Defence Act, 2002. While the creation of the National Defence Force Service Commission does not fall within the provisions of sub-section 2(a) of the act, as it does not relate to the formulation and execution of defence policy which is subject to the authority of Parliament and the national executive, I have decided to consult the Portfolio Committee on Defence and to seek its guidance and assistance on the creation of this Commission, in view of the national importance of this issue. The Portfolio Committee was briefed on Tuesday, September 15 2009 about my plans and undertook to discuss various aspects of this matter, including the composition of, and the appointment of, the members of the commission. Given the enormity of this task, we sought the guidance and assistance of an impartial commission as well as Parliament to help us formulate appropriate regulations, which will regulate these matters, until such time as the Defence Act is properly amended to make provision for a permanent National Defence Force Service Commission, which will be responsible for considering the issues which affect members of the Defence Force. The commission will interact with the Council of Defence and brief it on its work from time to time. It must also interact with the soldiers through the due protocols. This will enable the commission to make appropriate recommendations to the executive. The commission was not set up to take the place of unions. It is established to oversee a separate dispensation for the defence force - a matter that the Defence Force has advocated for the last 10 years. As for Zwelinzima Vavi and Cosatu, it is clear that they need some educating. And I will offer my services in this regard. Lindiwe Sisulu is the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans. <!--[if !supportLists]--><!--[endif]--> This message and any attachments may be confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. They are sent for the attention of the named addressee(s) only. If you are not the named addressee(s) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this message. In this case, you should not copy or distribute this message or attachments, use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Hibiscus Coast Municipality shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. Emails cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses. 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