Cde Dominic I don't understand the source of your embarrassment from cde Ian's email. I think he is strongly expressing a view which we as communist should challenge him to produce fact thereof. Both cde Ian and Nqobizitha have been welcomed with open arms, not only in this forum, but within the SACP structures as well in JHB. As communists can neither afford to be pro MDC nor Zanu PF but should rather be pro working class and the poor.
Let's welcome this debate by these two cdes since I think it will richly benefit the forum and challenge them to back any accusation and counter accusations with factual information. _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dominic Tweedie Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Zimbabwe -- MDC, a party of puppets Dear Comrades of the YCLSA Discussion Forum, I am the one who invited Ian Beddowes to take part in this list just a few weeks ago. I thought it would assist him, as it is supposed to assist anyone, to hear other voices and to exchange dialogue. I now feel embarrassed by this message of Ian's. The first sentence is the worst because he takes it upon himself to pronounce who should and who should not take part in our forum. There have never been any such exclusions or ostracisms on the YCLSA Discussion Forum, and cannot be. At the same time, it is a vicious attack on one individual, who also happens to be a dear friend and a solid comrade of mine, and whom I know to be honourable, hard-working and effective, and with whom I have worked for years, and trust. Thus Beddowes' nasty insinuations are personally offensive and distressing to me. My first concern must be to defend the YCLSA Discussion Forum, as I have always tried to do on previous such occasions. I am the practical founder of it. I am the one who built it and activated it, in co-operation with the YCL. Most of its members are YCL, but subscription is not limited to YCL members or in any other way. I am the moderator by default, and nobody has yet volunteered to assist with this work. The moderating policy is simple: no spam. Spammers are eliminated. Everything else is allowed, and we have proved in practice that the group can and does find its own level politically, without any political censorship, ostracism or exclusion. All this is in fact the only practical way to run such a group, and is the reason why people such as Ian Beddowes himself can be here, for example. My experience after three years or so is that this group defends these principles in a way that is admirable, and which is a source of pride to me, and which constantly makes me feel grateful to the comrades here. Therefore one does not need to say a whole lot about the quality of the remainder of Ian's wild message, with its unsubstantiated accusations of conspiracy and bribery. These are the kinds of things that get corrected in dialogue. Suffice it to say that in my opinion we should all try to maintain the standard that we would expect of a good journalist, namely that accusations as well as factual statements should be backed up with evidence, or otherwise left out, please. Unsubstantiated ravings just waste our time. Bullying is not wanted here. Among other things what we are doing on this forum is exercising the art and skill of public political argument, because as communists we need to do that. So far, the main lesson we have learnt on this forum from Cde Beddowes has been about how not to win friends and influence people. I know that he has a more positive and cheerful side to him and I hope that we will get the benefit of it in the future. VC Ian Beddowes wrote: I keep seeing on this google group, messages sent by supporters of the MDC, and keep wondering if I have not inadvertantly found my way a DA discussion group. Firstly there is no Zimbabwean party called MDC. This organisation has gained support through the blunders, greed and thuggery of the ZANU leadership, coupled with the deliberate destabilisation policy of which they are part. The first meeting which set up the MDC was at the La Gondola Restaurant in Bulawayo and was called by MI6 Agent Linsey as a response to the Zimbabwean leadership of the resistance to the US invasion of the DRC. It was held in 1998, three months after the beginning of that war. The people who came to the meeting were the leadership of the Zimbawe Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU), who had been pushed by their membership to form a Trade Union party, following the adoption of the Economic Structural Adjustment Programme (ESAP), which had led to a drastic reduction of workers' wages. The other major section was composed of former members of the Rhodesian Front, in particular white farmers, who had fought tooth and nail against any reversal of the 1930 Land Act which divided the country into two roughly equal areas of land, one half going to the white minority and the other half going to the black majority -- with nearly all the best land going to the white minority. Especially in the early 1950's blacks were removed from the land at gun point from fertile areas, their cattle stolen, and were duped in infertile areas where many died. The purpose of the US/UK Axis was not to promote Trade Unionism or Democracy, but to punish Zimbabwe, its people and its army for the heroic defence of the DRC and Angola. UNITA troops fought alongside the Tutsi forces and it was very clear that the intention was to push through to Angola and put Savimbi into power -- who was later killed by Zimbabwean special forces. By the way, the biggest battle of the war was not in DRC but in Cabinda, the oil-rich Angolan enclave. The MDC, then, is a workers party in the same vein as the MMD in Zambia under the leadership of Chiluba, or Solidarnosc in Poland under the leadership of Walensa, a workers' party with allegiance to George Bush, the Republican Party and Monopoly Capitalism. At this initial meeting, huge sums of money were promised to those who would form the new party, which was duly formed trhe following year 1999, the same year sanctions started. I am attaching a copy of the so-called Zimbabwe Democracy Act. People who read it will see that the claim that there are "only targetted sanctions", is a monstrous lie perpetuated by even the South African Government owned media. This is my introduction to the problems of Zimbabwe. There is more to come. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. 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