comrade siyabonga you are equally confusing me, u say we must not mix these issues but you find space to as such. however it is equally correct that comrades should learn oparating discusssions in a principled manner. i may however have a different but yet unique approach in the nationalisation question as you comrades would reflect from my last few discussions on the matter that it is scientifically correct to instill proper dialictical thinking in the matter yes let us remember that A is not equal to A question is is the same nationalisation aluded by yl an significant reflevtion of the working class hegimony. my leader comrade thulani is corect that it is within our favour that as the youth of this country should lead the discussion, but i however do not believe that he says we should not bassically intarogate its context. so i think we should firstly reflect on what do we understand by the nationalisation of mines
Siyabonga Zama wrote: > Comrade General > > Whether you like the Comrades or not of which > I am convinced you do not, but insulting them is totally out of order. Julius > is a president of the youth league and I do not remember any academic > requirement for one to be member of the YL or lead in the organization. The > Comrade cant call us garden boys and expert that we will keep quiet and insult > our leaders and expert that we going to keep quiet. Our support for the the > Nationalization > of mines need to separated from the ongoing debate around who will be the SG > in > 2012, because that will further confuse comrades like General who are already > confused. The issue around nationalization is an ANCYL position and as > members of the YL we are bound to support it. > > Lastly Comrades I think Comrade Mbaks is > ready to lead in any position in the ANC including that of the SG > > > > SIYABONGA CHARLES > ZAMA > MANAGER: SMME'S & > BUSINESS LICENSING > HIBISCUS COAST > MUNICIPALITY > TEL: 039-6882275 > FAX: 0865297131 > CELL:0827578039 > EMAIL: > [email protected] .za > www.hcm.gov.za > > > ITS NOT A CONSCIOUSNESS > OF MAN THAT DETERMINES HIS SOCIAL BEING BUT ON THE CONTRARY HIS SOCIAL BEING > DETERMINES HIS CONSCIOUSNESS > > From: > [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected] ] On Behalf Of Khutjo Mphahlele > Sent: 09 February 2010 08:01 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] > Fwd: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > > Comrade Thulani you > are clear Mchana > The utterances that > were flying and calling comrades with names and insulting them it’s > really out of order. Macomrade if you differ with other comrades, regardless > of > which cabal or branch you are from. we differ always, but calling people the > blabbermouth and all sorts of things it’s really not good.. > > From: > [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected] ] On Behalf Of thulani kunene > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 > 6:24 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] > Fwd: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > > i am ashamed by the words that you are using when raising your views > my comrade. > > what do you consider youth mattter?is mining not a youth matter?who > works at the mines?is it not young people. > > whose parents work at the mines?is it not fathers and mothers of the > youth. > > so the ancyl is not out of order when raising matters of the economy. > > to call comrade Floyd a 'blabbermouth' is out of order. > > are matters of the economy a preserve of the educated?does it mean that > those who are not educated must remain silent and let the educated discuss > matters that concern them directly!!! > > do we call comrades garden boys! > > i hope you crocodile forever and never post your comments if you are > going to be insulting comrades instead of debating. > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:56 PM, sipho shandu < [email protected] > wrote: > Dear cadres, > Let us not be reactionaries but let us revolutionary in all we write and > utter. > Floyd is Malema's "bedbug" and is out of line. Whatever juluis > utters, floyd will reiterate with full support. > I joined the ANC because it was the party of integrity and I made it my home. > A > party of peace and respect. Here came these lumpens who want to turn things > around with a whole lot of disrespect and hooliganism. > Julius is the presidente of the ANCYL and floyd is just the league's > "blabbermouth" and both must attend to the matters which matter the > most to youth. I do not undesrtand why Julius is discussing very complex > matters of high academia when he knows that he does not have that caliber to > discuss and deliberate at such a high mental state. > This press statement is nonsense as it continues to devide us. Malema and his > garden boys must catch a wake up call. > I will not be in this forum for the wrong reasons. > We have had this halabaloo where we witnessed a showdown in polokwane and it > devided our party. I feel and honestly believe that we should refrain from > being power mongers otherwise it will kill our party. > Should anyone have a problem with my comment, please keep it to yourself. Let > us come to this forum sober minded and ready to debate critical issues of > national importance rather than post nonsensical opinions which stand no > ground. > Let me crocodile for now... > Cadre General Shonalanga > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Dominic Tweedie < [email protected] > > wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded > message ---------- > From: Nyiko Floyd Shivambu < [email protected] > > Date: 4 February 2010 12:25 > Subject: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > To: anc-yl-media < [email protected] >, ancmedia < > [email protected] > > RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > > 04 February 2010 > > The African National Congress Youth League (ANC YL) > has noted the reaction of Nicky Oppenheimer, De Beers Chairperson to the > misleading statements of Minister of Minerals, Susan Shabangu that Mines will > not be nationalised in the Minister’s lifetime. We have also noted > attempts to divert the debate on Nationalisation by Jeremy Cronin, who once > again, used the platform of the South African Communist Party to express his > views. We decided to respond to Nicky, Susan and Jeremy together because their > wish to retain the status quo in terms of property relations is the same, the > only slight difference is that the other one uses sophisticated English to > mislead our ally, the SACP on its response to Nationalisation of Mines. > > NICKY OPENHEIMER, > SUSAN SHABANGU AND DE BEERS: > > It is totally dishonest and criminal for Nicky > Oppenheimer to say he agrees with the misleading statements of Susan Shabangu > that Mines will not be nationalised in her lifetime. By saying Mines will not > be nationalised in her lifetime, Susan Shabangu Is referring to her lifetime > as > a Minister of Minerals, because we doubt if she will be a Minister for that a > very long time. De Beers is a Mining partnership with the governments of > Botswana , Namibia > and Canada , yet seems to be > refusing that the people of South > Africa benefit from mining of diamond. De > Beers is an inconsistent and immoral, inhuman corporation, whose development > and growth was at the expense of many Africans’ innocent lives. De Beers > super-exploited African labourers through forced cheap labour and for many > years sponsored the conquest of the African majority by the white minorities. > De Beers operated in South > Africa during apartheid and basically > sponsored the murderous, destructive and racist actions of the > colonial/apartheid repressive regime. If there is ever any corporation that > has > to be remorseful and understand that the people of > South Africa should share in the > country’s wealth, it is De Beers. > > De Beers should not be misled by Susan Shabangu, but > should begin to design models of engagement with the State in the same manner > they did in Botswana , > Namibia and > Canada . In > South Africa , > De Beers should begin to adjust to giving away 60% of its ownership and > control > of Mining, because that is what is going to happen. De Beers should be leading > other Mining corporations in making them understand that Mining can happen > even > when the State has a greater stake in the mining corporations, and stop > listening to wrong advice by the Minister of Minerals. > > We do not expect Nicky Oppenheimer to support > Nationalisation because he is protecting his ill-gotten wealth, currently > worth > billions of Rands , which he inherited from his > war mongering forefathers. Whilst not openly supporting Nationalisation, > Patrice Motsepe has said in a constructive manner that if it happens in the > interest of South Africa , > he would support nationalisation. But a greedy, unethical capitalist, who > stays > in London , does not care about the interest of > South Africa . > If Nicky Oppenheimer thinks that he has a hold on the ANC through Minister > Susan Shabangu, then he is misled, because Susan Shabangu is not the ANC and > does not understand the ANC. > > JEREMY CRONIN AND > THE SACP > > The ANC Youth League wants to place it on record that > Jeremy Cronin has on several occasions been given the opportunity to > contribute > into the discussion document on Nationalisation of Mines. He was specifically > asked to write a chapter in the document on how Nationalised Mines should > alter > South Africa ’s > accumulation and growth path in order to address the Minerals-energy-finance > complex. As always, the only thing he could do was make a false commitment > that > he will contribute, but chose not to. In November 2009, Jeremy Cronin > committed > to make input and we are still waiting for his input. He instead chose to use > the platform of the Communist Party to try and divert focus from the ANC Youth > League’s call for Nationalisation and label it opportunistic and weak, > primarily because of a section which he was requested to make contributions > on. > > The ANC Youth League is acutely aware that what are > presented as views of the SACP Politburo are personal, reactionary views of > Jeremy Cronin who forever succeeds in misleading the Communist Party. The > SACP’s support for Nationalisation is couched with lots of doubts and > aspersions intended as questioning the legitimacy of the ANC Youth League to > raise the debate. The Communist Party should intensely look within itself and > ask the relevant question of why is it that all the personal beliefs of one > Jeremy Cronin without failure become the views of the Communist Party. The ANC > YL is aware that the labels of “Kebble-ism”, > “anti-communist” > > Jeremy Cronin is again re-committing the same mistake > he committed when he said our understanding of beneficiation is bling. Jeremy > Cronin does not read the official document of the ANC YL, but rushes to > respond > even on issues that have already been addressed. This specifically relates to > the conceptual foundation of the document which unequivocally says that > “nationalisation does not amount to bailing out of indebted > capitalists”. The entire question of > South Africa ’s State Owned > Enterprises is addressed in the discussion document, but as always, Jeremy > Cronin ignores it and instead chooses to raise false alarms on the whole > debate. > > Why a Communist cadre in the form of Jeremy Cronin > refuses to constructively input into the Nationalisation of Mines perspective > even when humbly requested to is worrying. But as they say, blood is thicker > than water. The ANC YL is neither grand-standing, nor threatening anyone. > Inspired by the 1944 founding generation of the ANC, we will not support any > leader of the ANC who is opposed to our political programme. It would be > foolhardy for the Youth League to support leaders who are opposed to our > programme. > > We will continue to engage with the Communist Party > and COSATU and develop a proper programme moving forward. Nationalisation of > Mines will happen, and for Nicky Oppenheimer and Jeremy Cronin, we appreciate > your opposition because it makes us more determined. > > Issued by the > African National Congress Youth League > Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC YL Spokesperson > 0828199474 > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum > for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] > . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't > have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an > e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] > . > > -- > You are subscribed. 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