Dear cdes, Let cdes not respond with intend to pleas some within the ranks of the Party, for that will lead us astray like it with Cader General Shonalanga. Firstly uqabane started the debate from a sanusi point view, and further assume that cde Floyd is Malema's "bedbug" which is completely incorrect and also uncommunist. Since uShonalanga decided to raise issues from a Bakuninist point of view, i thought it will be wise for one to take this opportunity and clarify him on few issues. - Reactionaries are those who wants the unprogressive status qou to remain the same in the bourgoies state, irrespective of hardships that proletariat are faced with daily. - Revolutionaries are the ones that seeks to put the revolutionary theory into practice, their`s is to change the world and also put issues such as the "Nationalisation of Mines" into perspective and not ridicule. - Those who joined the ANC because of reasons stated by uMkhulu Shonalanga are the ones we should refer to as "bedbugs", cos the reason he joined the ANC is of personal interest. - Mkhulu you are niether reactionary nor revolutionary because the two join organisations for political reason, whether progressive or not (not because of integrity) you are infact an anarcho-syndicalist. - Lumpens are the most selfish people one can ever think of, they do things for their own personal gain just like those who joined the ANC because it was the party of integrity. In this case uMalema and Floyd joined the ANC because they wanted to contribute in defending,deepening and advancing the NDR hence they are pushing so hard for the nationalisation of mines not the integrity that you so dearly want. - Imperative issues and fundamental questions have always been raised by young people, you will only understand this if read you about Fidel,Che,Julio Antonio Mella,Jose Marti,Marx,Engels & Lenin. - If you think that matters of the economy are not a consent to youth, then there is no difference between yourself and Buyelekhaya Dalindyebo. - In my understanding,conventional education only equips one with perceptual knowledge,promotes individualism,is liberal and accredits one for better jobs opportunities nothing else (nothing to do with leadership) when on the hand there is popular education which equips one with rational education,develops the way you see things,sharpens your analytical sense,helps you in dealing with issues affecting the working class and makes you aware of the material conditions that may find yourself or the working class in and such is called umrabulo baba (uMalema is currently attending classes on such since it is the tradition in the ANC & its alliance partners). - Nationalisation of Mines is an issue of national importance, hence it is applied by nations not Factions or fundamentalists. - You joined the forum voluntarily and also for reasons unknown to us, therefore stop saying you will not be in it for wrong reasons when in reality you are one bringing wrong things. - Last but not least, you call for soberness when everything you wrote represents confusion and drukenness. - Cde Floyd is a communist who is also the spokesperson of the ANCYL and instead of being personal on him, let us first learn the differnce between Floyd the spokesperson and Floyd the young communist.
As for the debate around the nationalisation of mines, i think cde Jeremy has the right to raise issues as he sees fit unless the YL says those with different views should not participate on this matter. It is better to have Jeremy who speaks his mind than to have people who pretend to support when in reality they say the Youth League is not only lost but confused as well. I think the YL instead of focusing on Jeremy, they should look for things that raise suspisions in their document,come up with solutions and provide leadership on this matter. I wish there was tolerance in this debate so that one could contribute freely without fear of being associated with some. It is sad and heartbreaking to see the MDM structures having degenerated to a point where debates are only accepted when they come from a certain or particular angle. As for the SACP, it seem to have forgotten its role when engaging the Youth League's document on nationalisation of mines. The Party seem to be moving far away from marxism-leninism, far from being a revolutionary party and to quickly being a reformist party. Part of the reasons I say this, is because when the ANC spoke of the Developmental State, the Party was quick to accept and resolve around such irrespective of whether it is within the interests of the working class or not (as if such has got nothing to do with Capitalism). Today the YL raises a fundamental question which to me,withuot any doubt, is in the interest of the working class and the Party through cde Jeremy, rejects it unconditionally. The leadership of the Party does all these, approaching the Youth League's debate on nationalisation of mines forgetting that communists do not have an interest of their own seperate and appart from that of the working class. The YL understanding that communists are the most advanced and resolute section of the working class, expected the Party not only to contribute but also to shape up the debate like uTshonyane did when the ANC raised issue of a complicated nature. The likes of aboKotane who played a progressive role in ensuring that the YL yabo Madiba did not only become progressive but also becomes the well oiled machines of our liberation are solely missed. I hope the Party becomes aware of the path to doom they are trying to take our society to and reverse processes before its too late. Our congress resolutions (2007) pronounces very clear on the question of nationalisation of Sasol and Mittal Steel hence the YL is expecting our assistance. I'm not ignoring the fact that nationalisation is not equal to nationalisation but it is better than having means of production in the hands of the few who happens to be friends of some in the Party. Let us not suffer from the fear of the unknown and assist the cause. Hoping you will not stoop that low and insult but rather engage the matter. Socialismo o Muerte!!! Avant Garde, Sithembewena Tsembeyi. Dear cadres, Let us not be reactionaries but let us revolutionary in all we write and utter. Floyd is Malema's "bedbug" and is out of line. Whatever juluis utters, floyd will reiterate with full support. I joined the ANC because it was the party of integrity and I made it my home. A party of peace and respect. Here came these lumpens who want to turn things around with a whole lot of disrespect and hooliganism. Julius is the presidente of the ANCYL and floyd is just the league's "blabbermouth" and both must attend to the matters which matter the most to youth. I do not undesrtand why Julius is discussing very complex matters of high academia when he knows that he does not have that caliber to discuss and deliberate at such a high mental state. This press statement is nonsense as it continues to devide us. Malema and his garden boys must catch a wake up call. I will not be in this forum for the wrong reasons. We have had this halabaloo where we witnessed a showdown in polokwane and it devided our party. I feel and honestly believe that we should refrain from being power mongers otherwise it will kill our party. Should anyone have a problem with my comment, please keep it to yourself. Let us come to this forum sober minded and ready to debate critical issues of national importance rather than post nonsensical opinions which stand no ground. Let me crocodile for now... Cadre General Shonalanga ________________________________ From: sipho shandu <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 3:56:26 PM Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Fwd: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> wrote: > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Nyiko Floyd Shivambu <[email protected]> >Date: 4 February 2010 12:25 >Subject: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN >SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: >To: anc-yl-media <[email protected]>, ancmedia ><[email protected]> > > > >RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN SHABANGU ON THE >NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > >04 February 2010 > >The African National Congress Youth League (ANC YL) has noted the reaction of >Nicky Oppenheimer, De Beers Chairperson to the misleading statements of >Minister of Minerals, Susan Shabangu that Mines will not be nationalised in >the Minister’s lifetime. We have also noted attempts to divert the debate on >Nationalisation by Jeremy Cronin, who once again, used the platform of the >South African Communist Party to express his views. We decided to respond to >Nicky, Susan and Jeremy together because their wish to retain the status quo >in terms of property relations is the same, the only slight difference is that >the other one uses sophisticated English to mislead our ally, the SACP on its >response to Nationalisation of Mines. > >NICKY OPENHEIMER, SUSAN SHABANGU AND DE BEERS: > >It is totally dishonest and criminal for Nicky Oppenheimer to say he agrees >with the misleading statements of Susan Shabangu that Mines will not be >nationalised in her lifetime. By saying Mines will not be nationalised in her >lifetime, Susan Shabangu Is referring to her lifetime as a Minister of >Minerals, because we doubt if she will be a Minister for that a very long >time. De Beers is a Mining partnership with the governments of Botswana, >Namibia and Canada, yet seems to be refusing that the people of South Africa >benefit from mining of diamond. De Beers is an inconsistent and immoral, >inhuman corporation, whose development and growth was at the expense of many >Africans’ innocent lives. De Beers super-exploited African labourers through >forced cheap labour and for many years sponsored the conquest of the African >majority by the white minorities. De Beers operated in South Africa during >apartheid and basically sponsored the murderous, destructive and racist actions of the colonial/apartheid repressive regime. If there is ever any corporation that has to be remorseful and understand that the people of South Africa should share in the country’s wealth, it is De Beers. > >De Beers should not be misled by Susan Shabangu, but should begin to design >models of engagement with the State in the same manner they did in Botswana, >Namibia and Canada. In South Africa, De Beers should begin to adjust to giving >away 60% of its ownership and control of Mining, because that is what is going >to happen. De Beers should be leading other Mining corporations in making them >understand that Mining can happen even when the State has a greater stake in >the mining corporations, and stop listening to wrong advice by the Minister of >Minerals. > >We do not expect Nicky Oppenheimer to support Nationalisation because he is >protecting his ill-gotten wealth, currently worth billions of Rands, which he >inherited from his war mongering forefathers. Whilst not openly supporting >Nationalisation, Patrice Motsepe has said in a constructive manner that if it >happens in the interest of South Africa, he would support nationalisation. But >a greedy, unethical capitalist, who stays in London, does not care about the >interest of South Africa. If Nicky Oppenheimer thinks that he has a hold on >the ANC through Minister Susan Shabangu, then he is misled, because Susan >Shabangu is not the ANC and does not understand the ANC. > >JEREMY CRONIN AND THE SACP > >The ANC Youth League wants to place it on record that Jeremy Cronin has on >several occasions been given the opportunity to contribute into the discussion >document on Nationalisation of Mines. He was specifically asked to write a >chapter in the document on how Nationalised Mines should alter South Africa’s >accumulation and growth path in order to address the Minerals-energy-finance >complex. As always, the only thing he could do was make a false commitment >that he will contribute, but chose not to. In November 2009, Jeremy Cronin >committed to make input and we are still waiting for his input. He instead >chose to use the platform of the Communist Party to try and divert focus from >the ANC Youth League’s call for Nationalisation and label it opportunistic and >weak, primarily because of a section which he was requested to make >contributions on. > >The ANC Youth League is acutely aware that what are presented as views of the >SACP Politburo are personal, reactionary views of Jeremy Cronin who forever >succeeds in misleading the Communist Party. The SACP’s support for >Nationalisation is couched with lots of doubts and aspersions intended as >questioning the legitimacy of the ANC Youth League to raise the debate. The >Communist Party should intensely look within itself and ask the relevant >question of why is it that all the personal beliefs of one Jeremy Cronin >without failure become the views of the Communist Party. The ANC YL is aware >that the labels of “Kebble-ism”, “anti-communist” > >Jeremy Cronin is again re-committing the same mistake he committed when he >said our understanding of beneficiation is bling. Jeremy Cronin does not read >the official document of the ANC YL, but rushes to respond even on issues that >have already been addressed. This specifically relates to the conceptual >foundation of the document which unequivocally says that “nationalisation does >not amount to bailing out of indebted capitalists”. The entire question of >South Africa’s State Owned Enterprises is addressed in the discussion >document, but as always, Jeremy Cronin ignores it and instead chooses to raise >false alarms on the whole debate. > >Why a Communist cadre in the form of Jeremy Cronin refuses to constructively >input into the Nationalisation of Mines perspective even when humbly requested >to is worrying. But as they say, blood is thicker than water. The ANC YL is >neither grand-standing, nor threatening anyone. Inspired by the 1944 founding >generation of the ANC, we will not support any leader of the ANC who is >opposed to our political programme. It would be foolhardy for the Youth League >to support leaders who are opposed to our programme. > >We will continue to engage with the Communist Party and COSATU and develop a >proper programme moving forward. Nationalisation of Mines will happen, and for >Nicky Oppenheimer and Jeremy Cronin, we appreciate your opposition because it >makes us more determined. > >Issued by the African National Congress Youth League >Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC YL Spokesperson >0828199474 >-- >You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this >message. >You can visit the group WEB SITE at >http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, >pages, files and membership. >To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . >You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put >anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this >address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] . -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
