In as much you appreciate my tone-down I also would advise you to further find it necessary to respect and protect our hard fought democracy from the likes of abo-Nqaba, as you have seen his impulsive reaction on the debate when you insinuated that the ANC led SA is moving towards a Banana republic, without initiative to defend from any possible repatriation of our country.
It should also be noted that creating opportunistic space for the likes of u-Nqaba leaves much to be desired... point is when we discuss issues of our country we should find it in ourselves to seek non-terrorist blander that could lead our country into mayhem, if you know very well this blog is published even on the Google search engine and would suggest that members of the MDM are also losing confidence in the running of their own country it is very threatening to the state security to even suggest that the Judiciary system have possible corrupt influence in trying not to serve fair justice to the nation. I am also one of the few that believe that in as much that we need to give an open space to the justice system and its interdependency, the is also a fundamental question here, I believe that we need to pose some few question in the role the judiciary played in the apartheid era, has the judiciary played a fundamental role in ensuring the deepening of our democracy in this democratic state, it is also my view that we need to open a discussion around the role the judiciary should be playing towards our society and in which interest should it be serving, it is also my opinion that a need for a fundamental transformation in the judiciary is more than necessary. So my leader let us all try to start engaging on the above said question they may probably assist us moving forward. ________________________________ From: Tumi Gopane <[email protected]> To: Sithembewena tsembeyi <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 3:48:39 PM Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Cde This email is now quality debate, where we reason and discuss with each other in a respectable and objective manner particularly as comrades. I appreciate that you also appreciate that even though we disagree, it should be approached beyond reproach. It makes me have hope seeing that comrades can eventually asses themselves and change their approach for the betterment of our country and Africa at large. It is very difficult to remove emotions from discussions which involve losing loved ones; especially over careless and illegal drag racing by people who are supposed to be role models in society, remembering that when you are a celebrity, politician etc. you automatically become a role model to many whether you like it or not. I do agree with you comrade that we should respect the judiciary. We should however not stop questioning them where we feel necessary because after all magistrates and judges are human beings, who can be outright wrong at times, misjudge situations or be completely influenced and thus impartial. Once more it is appreciated that you toned down your approach on this issue; by speaking to the issue and not attacking the individual. We have to maintain the high standard of debate that has characterized our movement for last 98 years if we see the ANC as the epicenter of the NDR. Regards, Tumelo G. ________________________________ From: Sithembewena tsembeyi To: Tumi Gopane Sent: Mon Mar 29 15:04:59 SAST 2010 Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Point is chief as much I do not support the decision taken by the NPA to excuse the prosecutor from the case, further more not in support of Jub-Jub getting a bail, noting that could have sent a strong massage to any one including top-celeb brass in their engagement on illegal activities, it could have not been done at the expense of our justice system... and more importantly as we would like to welcome the decision to charge Jub-Jub and friend with murder instead of capable homicide, which usually the case in fetal motor accidents and the point the prostituting authority aims at sending a very strong massage to all that may go against the road laws. I secondly do not approve of the "nandos sinario" of Malema and Jub-Jub, but however comrades should understand our disagreement with Malema should not stoop the same level they have decided to stoop, a matter here is of principles and this can only be observed if we categorically undertstand our resolute means of reasoning rather than using emotions, of which I personalty find it reactionary for comrades not to understand engagements... if we could firstly understand the manner comrade Lenin use to engage in discussion. Hoping you will in time learn and understand I am so impatient with unfounded deliberation both to our revolutionary organizations and mostly to my beloved country and its integrity. ________________________________ Hasta Siempre la comandante Sithembewena Tsembeyi Socialismo o Muerte... ________________________________ ________________________________ From: Tumi Gopane <[email protected]> To: Sithembewena tsembeyi <[email protected]>; YCL SA Discussion Blog <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 2:44:56 PM Subject: RE: Fw: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Cde I hear what you are saying, however I still disagree. In the interest of not clogging other's inboxes with our dialogue, I guess we should take it off-line and engage further together. For a change congratulations, on this response you addressed the issue to a larger extent, however you still need to learn a bit more to refrain from engaging in attacking people due to your own myopic way of viewing life and affairs, that you would like to impose on everybody else. Regards, Tumelo G. ________________________________ From: Sithembewena tsembeyi To: YCL SA Discussion Blog Sent: Fri Mar 26 17:52:06 SAST 2010 Subject: Fw: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Sithembewena tsembeyi <[email protected]> To: Tumi Gopane <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 5:51:35 PM Subject: Re: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties I am sorry that you have failed to know the criminal procedural acts, and however for you to come to conclusions that are un-informed are a sign of the latest workerist tendencies facing your likes, I believe you know of the Saying entrenched within the constitution of the country that goes... "innocent until proven guilty.." However let us assist you chief, what is meant by that is that it is understood by the law of this country that anyone including Jub-jub is reffered as a suspect/acused, meaning the state has to firstly prove that he has indeed done the act or not, it is by this not given as many and you may assume that course that was his car and he was on the scene it is he who was either driving or who coursed the said accident, by this he is still Scot free but on the watch of suspicion that the state should convince the court, which by the way is independent. Then it is also by these said in the same constitution that guides our principles as a country that he is entitled to bail, however there some other aspects that the state should prove for the court not to grant bail, probably you are also not familiar with... so let me assist you again... For the State to prove the none-granting of bail to any accused/suspect it should prove that he is/might be a threat to the proceedings of the investigation, trough possible intimidation, contact or any engagement with witness and or the victim, secondly the state should also prove that the accused/suspect is a flight risk and this is very hard to prove, as we know that we have a judicial interlining with other international countries and lastly the state has to prove that either the suspect/accused life might be endangered well that you know that is impossible. So what ever is said in the article is unscientific and has not been officiated by the NPA and well it is for many possible reasons that the NPA may remove the presiding prosecutor, and however the distortions that go around trying to convince people that the SA prosecution authority is incompetent is orchestrated to mislead some like you, who fail to put analysis in any other issue and vividly come with rhetoric conclusions, probably you dont know there are many different circumstances that you should firstly consider for the initial case. Firstly for the base application/hearing is a complete different procedure than the initial court proceedings of the initial crime, one the Judge/magistrate who had presided in the bail hearing may or will not be the same in the actual case, so now the NPA is currently preparing the case not a bail hearing and there has no revocation of bail that the NPA applied for so it is also within the NPA now to chose who will be leading the case, and a person with appropriate expects shall in my knowledge be appointed by the NPA to prosecute the case. So Chief First get your facts straight rather than to insult my country. Hasta seimpre la comandante Sithembewena Tsembeyi Socialismo o Muerte ________________________________ From: Tumi Gopane <[email protected]> To: Sithembewena tsembeyi <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 5:17:06 PM Subject: RE: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties My point is very simple. I do not think that it is appropriate to give a man bail who ?accidentally? killed four kids whilst engaging in illegal activities in the first place. These deaths were not as a result of a sober hard working man driving home from work to see his family. Bail is not only a function of flight risk as far as I understand the law. The man that then rightfully decides to oppose bail; who is certainly a farther and probably a grandfather is then coincidentally shuffled around and moved from the case. To me those are signs of slumping into a Banana Republic as a country; where seemingly who you know and position in society seemingly determine how the law is applied on you. Instead of disagreeing with me logically or factually where you have facts, you engage in personal attacks. This is very characteristic of people who cannot use logic and facts to debate issues, but rather divert the discussion into unnecessary personal and emotional attacks. I am sorry but I do not have the time nor the energy to invest in personal attacking discussions. Regards, Tumelo G. ________________________________ From: Sithembewena tsembeyi To: [email protected] Sent: Fri Mar 26 16:46:25 SAST 2010 Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Ideological Vendor based on rhetoric, compradorial Ideological hermaphrodite logic again here you go. Learn to discuss with content failure to that we would request VC to use the Force removal from this blog. Hasta Siempre la comandante Sithembewena Tsembeyi Socialismo o Muerte ________________________________ From: Tumi Gopane <[email protected]> To: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Fri, March 26, 2010 4:37:25 PM Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Banana Republic based on the Lamprecht issue, here we come. ________________________________ From: Dominic Tweedie To: [email protected] Sent: Fri Mar 26 15:41:30 SAST 2010 Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Jub Jub prosecutor relieved of duties Sonja Carstens en Dani?lla du Plooy, Beeld, Johannesburg, 25 March 2010 Johannesburg - A chief State prosecutor has been relieved of his duties after he refused to execute the orders of Menzi Simelane, head of the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA). The orders were that he should not contest bail for the musician Jub Jub. Andr? (Lampies) Lambrecht, 60, chief State prosecutor of the West Rand, was given the order three times. Gladstone Maema, acting director of public prosecution (DPP) in Gauteng, phoned Lambrecht twice to say Simelane had given the order. Maema repeated the order to Lambrecht for the third time in person. Lambrecht refused to execute the order unless he received it in writing, which he did not receive. Lambrecht didn't respond to Simelane's verbal order, and the State did oppose Jub Jub's bail application. Visit from Malema On Friday Magistrate Andr? Auret granted bail of R10 000 to Jub Jub (Molemo Maarohanye). The hip hop star is facing murder charges since he was involved in a car race which ended in a crash which killed four schoolboys in Soweto. One day before Jub Jub's bail application was set to begin, he received a visit in detention from Julius Malema, president of the ANC Youth League. Maema gave Lambrecht a letter on Tuesday in which he was relieved of his managerial duties and told to work as a prosecutor in court. No reasons were given. Lambrecht has been chief State prosecutor of the West Rand for the past ten years. The prosecutors of Krugersdorp, Soweto, Randfontein and Roodepoort, among others, fall under him. Magistrate Gert Jonker, chief magistrate of Johannesburg, said in response to a question that the court management was informed on Thursday morning that Lambrecht has been relieved of his managerial duties. "I'm shocked. He was an extremely capable chief prosecutor." 'Unreasonable treatment' Manie de Clercq, deputy head manager of the Public Servants Association (PSA), said the case has been reported to the civil service union. The union will be taking steps in accordance with the Labour Act to support Lambrecht with the "unreasonable treatment" he received from his employer. Lambrecht was demoted without any disciplinary steps taken against him. Jan Henning, former deputy chief of the NPA, described Lambrecht as "one of the pillars which keeps the prosecuting authority in the lower courts standing". "If that (what happened) is the case, it's a harsh insult to someone who doesn't deserve it at all and to someone who has made a much bigger contribution to the practice of law that those who decided to relieve him of his duties." 'Not about Jub Jub case' When Maema was approached for comment, he said Lambrecht's "move" had nothing to do with the Jub Jub case. "It's part of our strategy to move these people with the expertise to the lower courts because we need them there, and big cases are increasingly being heard in lower courts. "This is something we've been planning for quite some time. Three other people (in similar positions) were also moved to lower courts on the same day." According to Maema, the decision regarding the moves was made before bail was granted in the Jub Jub case. He did admit that he had spoken to Lambrecht about the Jub Jub case and the granting of bail, but said the two issues are not related at all. "As DPP I have to discuss issues such as this (granting of bail and the charges against Jub Jub). We did so, and I communicated the decision to Simelane." Lambrecht declined to comment. - Beeld From: http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/35a8c22afa214e949f6b6725bc2c6d74/25-03-2010-11-17/Jub_Jub_prosecutor_relieved_of_duties -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] . 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