> From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 23:09:11 +0000 > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; > who must lead the Alliance? > > > what i see here demonstrated by both cdes is lack of clarity that exist in > everyone of us. It is important that we all strive for revolutionary clarity > to better understand the revolutionary theory, marxisim. There is noone can > claim to know it all, but we should listen atatively and hear what each other > says if we are going to develop the required clarity. There are three > prerequisites for socialism, first the working class must be a majority, > secondly there should be more than we need of our basic needs, thirdly the > revolutionary character should be internationalsed in nature. If these are > facts did we have these in russia? It is a fact that communism was only > attempted in russia and in real sense never existed. Lenin and the > bolshevicks first implemented war communism but they have to change and > brought back elements of capitalism because of different factors. When he > died stalin took over and everything then went wrong from that point. Eg when > the german ans british revolutions failed as the success of the russian > revolution relied on them to succed the project for socialism in one country > begin. I will not go now on the reasons why the revolution failed, but it is > important to note that russia was very backward in industry working class was > not in majority, civil war that took place after the october revolution where > the most trained cdes died in big numbers as they were in the fore front of > the red army, more than 18 countries participated in the civil in support of > the white army in stoping the revolution from spreading to the world. stalin > was then limited by conditions that exisited thus the only way out was to > first eliminate all those were opposed to his party leadership. He murdered > thousands of his cdes and sent others salt mines as slaves. he took cotrol of > the party and all the private property was once again abolished. democracy > stopped to exist and state became the only employer that subjected workers > under very inhuman conditions and with no workers rights at all. State became > the capitalist, thus state capitalism developed. Socialism is when the > working class is in power, and under stalin workers were not in power. > Communism its when there are no social classes and under stalinist russia the > party beaurecrats enjoyed everything whilst the worker had to take orders > from above. There was no decision making from below as workers were > objectified and were no longer agents of change but subjects of production. > Human rights were criminalised. There can be no socialism without democracy > and there can be no socialism in one country since capitalism is an > international phenomenon. But we must fight for it where we are at the same > time in solidarity with the working class in other countries. Joe slovo said > the soviet russia was socialism without democracy, but can be such? > Sent from my Nokia phone > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sent: 07/04/2010 11:34:22 pm > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; > who must lead the Alliance? > > Idealism seems to be finding its expression within our SACP, the vanguard > party of the working class, whilst contemporary bourgeois ideology is a > weapon used against the revolutionary class. > > Distorting marxist-leninist philosophy can not and shall never be viewed as > progressive. It doesnot nothing but to hold back the proletarian revolution. > > Narrow interpretation of historical processes and erasing the history of > USSR, will never succeed in swaying us towards accepting capitalism as the > only alternative social system. > > Referring to workers struggle as a factory floor process is tantamount to a > lobby strategy for eternal bourgeois dominance over the revolutionary class > and that is also promoting anarcho syndicalism. You sound like someone who > thinks workers are irrelevant in class struggle, > > Marxist philosophy outlines categorically clear, the importance of workers in > a class struggle. If you were to apply marxist-leninist tools of analysis, > you will then be better positioned to understand the inherent conflict > between the two main classes. Is it not the communist manifesto that outlines > categorically clear that communists do not have an interest of their own > apart from that of the working class. > > Any revolution that ends up with the bourgeoisie as the ruling class can > never be seen as progressive, and does not deserve a defence from the > proletariat. The immediate programme of the working class is not to get > intervention from the state at the work place but to overthrow capitalism. > > A society that has people who live partly or wholly from the work of others, > has people who owns the means of production and live by exploiting the class > that does not, has members of a class that owns no means of production and > live by selling their capacity to work to members of a class that does, can > never be reffered to as progressive and worth to be defended. > > Hasn't capitalism outlived its usefulness to the mass of the people, isn't > this the basis of a crisis within the capitalist system which brought into > existance a movement to change the social system to a new one. You > necodimously want us to believe fallacy and agree with you that socialism > cannot be achieved/build in one country independently as if the Bolshevik > revolution is just a mythological question. > > Lenin in further developing Marxist philosophy through practice and also > guided by material conditions, managed to overthrow bourgeois supremacy in > one country. > > The biggest mistake that we as communists consistently make, is to confuse > the consolidation of bourgeois supremacy with the part to socialism. If ours > is indeed a Marxist-Leninist, then ours is to understand that the only path > to socialism is through a socialist revolution, through overthrowing > bourgeois supremacy. > > As to what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union is as a result of > Stalinist bureaucracy, not because socialism was build in one country > independently. If by chance you think there is a possibility of liquidating > capitalism internationally at once, then keep on live a dream because > material conditions do not allow such a possibility at this juncture. > > The interconnected class contradiction on the other side are of course a > South African reality, and the resolve of such is but a responsibility of the > proletarian party not a multi class organisation. Multi class character means > tolerance of classes but not their equality. According to communists, the > bourgeois or exploiting class does not have any right to exist. > > Remember Lenin understood Marxism better than you and I, hence our party is > marxist-leninist. Revisit both the ABC of materialist dialectics and > Marxist-Leninist in order to reconsider your uncommunist position. The leader > of the alliance does not in anycase bother to think of socialism. > > Fear of undertaking one's revolutionary task is equal to submission to a > defeat by the reactionary bourgeois class. In our epoch, the ANC is not the > ruling class but a fragment of the state, the ruling class is the bourgeois > class. Defeat for capitalism is not equal to defeat of the ANC, hoping this > clarifies your confusion since you are unawarely caught in the mist of > bourgeois propaganda. > > Socialismo o muerte!!! > > Hasta siempre commandante, > > Avant Garde!!! > Sent from my Nokia phone > -----Original Message----- > From: Ranney Segage > Sent: 07/04/2010 11:51:06 > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; > who must lead the Alliance? > > NB: This email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited > EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE > > which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/email_legalnotice > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Cde Vanguard > > > > The role of trade union is different from that of a party , the question of > state power is a programme that should be carried by the party and the trade > union shall have to assist the party in organising work place committees that > will deal with workers issues at a factory level . That particular > arrangement will have to be co ordinated with party cells on the ground so > that where there is a need for state intervention , is will be easily co > ordinated . Imagine a trade union contesting elections and it wins the > election , it therefore suggest that the trade union will have to transform > itself in to a political party .Workers must be members of the party in order > to influence positions within the party ( Communist Party ) . The question > two stages is a distortion of internationalism , the National Democratic > Revolution has one stage , that of achieving National liberation and > thereafter a socialist contraction ( class struggle) since under socialism > there still exist classes until the total liquidation of capitalism .The > question of permanent revolution is links to the internationalist view that > seeks to liquidate capitalism at an international level , remember socialism > cannot be build in one country but it is an international task. The moment a > country is isolated , it cannot advance its complete socialist contraction . > > > > Yours for Socialism > > > > Ranney Jomo Segage > > Credit and Revenue Management > > Tel : 013 6934158 > > Fax : 013 6934186 > > Pax : 82214158 > > Cell : 0824710085 > > > > The denial of social contradictions leads to the denial of dialectics as a > logical theory > > > > > > >>> "jerrymokoena" <[email protected]> 2010/04/07 10:35 AM >>> > > Cde VC > > > > > > > > Ours > Email truncated to 2,000 characters > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put > anything in the message part. 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