My Gratitude Cdr Jeje I stand to agree with Cadre Jeje Yaqub. I wanted to give workers perspective but I would respond when I come from Local Labour Forum meeting. However comrade suggest or imply that trade unions in the present epoch should remains the organs of democracy within epoch of free capitalism and fact is we cannot any longer remain politically neutral. If that should be the case then it would limit trade unions to serve the daily needs of the working class. We cannot any longer be anarchistic, as we continue to ignore the decisive influence of the state on the life of the people and classes.
We cannot be reformist, because the objective conditions leave no room for any serious and lasting reforms. Why comrade suggest that trade unions of our time should serve as secondary instruments of imperialist capital to subordinate and discipline the workers to obstruct the revolution. It is quite clear that that comrade ngcozela is ill-informed of our revolutionary course. From what has said, it follows quite clearly that in spite of the progressive degeneration of trade unions and their growing together with imperialist state, the work within trade unions not only does not lose any of its importance but remains as before and becomes in certain sense even more important work than ever for every revolutionary party. Every organization, every party, every faction that permits itself an ultimastic position in relation to trade unions, that is, in essence turn its back upon the working class merely because of displeasure with its organization, every such organization is destined to perish. And it must be said that it deserve to perish. SAMWU is pained by specific statement that municipal workers should not contest position in the ANC, POPCRU is distressed by process of demilitarization of ranks, NUMSA is wounded by assurance given to principals of capitalism that economic policies are not going to change. ANCYL is upset envy to nationalize mines, Communities are hurt regarding matters of service delivery so the question is are we not to ready to overthrow the capitalist order? Vanguard SAMWU Shopsteward -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 09 April 2010 12:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; who must lead the Alliance? Will you get sick if you read? If one had the honour to read my email or Jomo's you would have presented yourself an opportunity to understand the line of march. You falsely accused us of lacking clarity, when yourself failed to possess an iota of knowledge in regard to proletarian revolution. You are giving us an uninformed lecture of the path to socialism. Your three prerequisites for socialism are informed by common sense, which is the enemy of the revolution. You read lots of newspapers to develop your consciousness, hence you're caught up in the periphery. Are you implying that the South African working class are in the minority, are you saying we as a country have less for our basic needs, are you therefore suggesting that our revolutionary character is not internationalised in nature. To me, you appear as someone who knows a little bid less about the social systems and the path leading to any. The October Russian revolution was never about communism, but the transition to communism. Socialism as a transition to to communism do have some elements of capitalism and such cannot be seen as a cause for the collapse of the Soviet Union. Refrain from taking liberal history books as a source of knowledge and search the marxist archives for authentic revolutionary information. History tells accurately so, that there was never an attempt for communism in Russia, they infact succeeded in a revolution that brought socialism. There are different types of democracies and by the way the original name is dictatorship, socialism is not equal to socialism but however the are many examples of countries that tasted socialism. The eastern blog of Europe was socialist when the western blog was capitalist. This is enough proof that socialism can be and was infact implemented in one country independently. The fact that some within our ranks are more comfortable with bourgeois democracy, gives them no right to distort the working class history. What Stalin did has nothing to do with whether socialism can be achieved in one country or not. Capitalism is not international but global. It is in one country independently, that's why you find that some capitalists countries are more developed than the others. Capitalism is the centre of boundaries and it survives through dividing nations into stronger and weaker nations. Globalism means it is found in different shapes and forms, throughout the world when internationalism means sharing and paying solidarity to one another. Making excuses for maintaining bourgeois democracy at the expense of proletarian revolution will not ease your conscience. Representing the enemy class will not make more revolutionary than the others but make you more docile and easier to exploit economically. Lastly your reasons about whether socialism failed are not going to convince anyone but confirm our suspicions. Your displayed hogwash as your brief version of history, tell it to Terre' Blanche's kids or the likes of Tutu, for they will at least entertain such bulder dash. In future, please avoid polluting discussions you have no knowledge of, keep your pen in the pocket and join Njunju in insulting journos or singing dubul' ibhunu. Hasta la victoria siempre, Avant Garde!!! Sent from my Nokia phone -----Original Message----- From: Thabang Ngcozela Sent: 08/04/2010 14:07:38 Subject: FW: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; who must lead the Alliance? > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 23:09:11 +0000 > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; who must lead the Alliance? > > > what i see here demonstrated by both cdes is lack of clarity that exist in everyone of us. It is important that we all strive for revolutionary clarity to better understand the revolutionary theory, marxisim. There is noone can claim to know it all, but we should listen atatively and hear what each other says if we are going to develop the required clarity. There are three prerequisites for socialism, first the working class must be a majority, secondly there should be more than we need of our basic needs, thirdly the revolutionary character should be internationalsed in nature. If these are facts did we have these in russia? It is a fact that communism was only attempted in russia and in real sense never existed. Lenin and the bolshevicks first implemented war communism but they have to change and brought back elements of capitalism because of different factors. When he died stalin took over and everything then went wrong from that point. Eg when the german ans british revolutions failed as the success of the russian revolution relied on them to succed the project for socialism in one country begin. I will not go now on the reasons why the revolution failed, but it is important to note that russia was very backward in industry working class was not in majority, civil war that took place after the october revolution where the most trained cdes died in big numbers as they were in the fore front of the red army, more than 18 countries participated in the civil in support of the white army in stoping the revolution from spreading to the world. stalin was then limited by conditions that exisited thus the only way out was to first eliminate all those were opposed to his party leadership. He murdered thousands of his cdes and sent others salt mines as slaves. he took cotrol of the party and all the private property was once again abolished. democracy stopped to exist and state became the only employer that subjected workers under very inhuman conditions and with no workers rights at all. State became the capitalist, thus state capitalism developed. Socialism is when the working class is in power, and under stalin workers were not in power. Communism its when there are no social classes and under stalinist russia the party beaurecrats enjoyed everything whilst the worker had to take orders from above. There was no decision making from below as workers were objectified and were no longer agents of change but subjects of production. Human rights were criminalised. There can be no socialism without democracy and there can be no socialism in one country since capitalism is an international phenomenon. But we must fight for it where we are at the same time in solidarity with the working class in other countries. Joe slovo said the soviet russia was socialism without democracy, but can be such? > Sent from my Nokia phone > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sent: 07/04/2010 11:34:22 pm > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; who must lead the Alliance? > > Idealism seems to be finding its expression within our SACP, the vanguard party of the working class, whilst contemporary bourgeois ideology is a weapon used against the revolutionary class. > > Distorting marxist-leninist philosophy can not and shall never be viewed as progressive. It doesnot nothing but to hold back the proletarian revolution. > > Narrow interpretation of historical processes and erasing the history of USSR, will never succeed in swaying us towards accepting capitalism as the only alternative social system. > > Referring to workers struggle as a factory floor process is tantamount to a lobby strategy for eternal bourgeois dominance over the revolutionary class and that is also promoting anarcho syndicalism. You sound like someone who thinks workers are irrelevant in class struggle, > > Marxist philosophy outlines categorically clear, the importance of workers in a class struggle. If you were to apply marxist-leninist tools of analysis, you will then be better positioned to understand the inherent conflict between the two main classes. Is it not the communist manifesto that outlines categorically clear that communists do not have an interest of their own apart from that of the working class. > > Any revolution that ends up with the bourgeoisie as the ruling class can never be seen as progressive, and does not deserve a defence from the proletariat. The immediate programme of the working class is not to get intervention from the state at the work place but to overthrow capitalism. > > A society that has people who live partly or wholly from the work of others, has people who owns the means of production and live by exploiting the class that does not, has members of a class that owns no means of production and live by selling their capacity to work to members of a class that does, can never be reffered to as progressive and worth to be defended. > > Hasn't capitalism outlived its usefulness to the mass of the people, isn't this the basis of a crisis within the capitalist system which brought into existance a movement to change the social system to a new one. You necodimously want us to believe fallacy and agree with you that socialism cannot be achieved/build in one country independently as if the Bolshevik revolution is just a mythological question. > > Lenin in further developing Marxist philosophy through practice and also guided by material conditions, managed to overthrow bourgeois supremacy in one country. > > The biggest mistake that we as communists consistently make, is to confuse the consolidation of bourgeois supremacy with the part to socialism. If ours is indeed a Marxist-Leninist, then ours is to understand that the only path to socialism is through a socialist revolution, through overthrowing bourgeois supremacy. > > As to what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union is as a result of Stalinist bureaucracy, not because socialism was build in one country independently. If by chance you think there is a possibility of liquidating capitalism internationally at once, then keep on live a dream because material conditions do not allow such a possibility at this juncture. > > The interconnected class contradiction on the other side are of course a South African reality, and the resolve of such is but a responsibility of the proletarian party not a multi class organisation. Multi class character means tolerance of classes but not their equality. According to communists, the bourgeois or exploiting class does not have any right to exist. > > Remember Lenin understood Marxism better than you and I, hence our party is marxist-leninist. Revisit both the ABC of materialist dialectics and Marxist-Leninist in order to reconsider your uncommunist position. The leader of the alliance does not in anycase bother to think of socialism. > > Fear of undertaking one's revolutionary task is equal to submission to a defeat by the reactionary bourgeois class. In our epoch, the ANC is not the ruling class but a fragment of the state, the ruling class is the bourgeois class. Defeat for capitalism is not equal to defeat of the ANC, hoping this clarifies your confusion since you are unawarely caught in the mist of bourgeois propaganda. > > Socialismo o muerte!!! > > Hasta siempre commandante, > > Avant Garde!!! > Sent from my Nokia phone > -----Original Message----- > From: Ranney Segage > Sent: 07/04/2010 11:51:06 > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to basics; who must lead the Alliance? > > NB: This email and its contents are subject to the Eskom Holdings Limited EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE > > which can be viewed at http://www.eskom.co.za/email_legalnotice > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Cde Vanguard > > > > The role of trade union is different from that of a party , the question of state power is a programme that should be carried by the party and the trade union shall have to assist the party in organising work place committees that will deal with workers issues at a factory level . That particular arrangement will have to be co ordinated with party cells on the ground so that where there is a need for state intervention , is will be easily co ordinated . Imagine a trade union contesting elections and it wins the election , it therefore suggest that the trade union will have to transform itself in to a political party .Workers must be members of the party in order to influence positions within the party ( Communist Party ) . The question two stages is a distortion of internationalism , the National Democratic Revolution has one stage , that of achieving National liberation and thereafter a socialist contraction ( class struggle) since under socialism there still exist classes until the total liquidation of capitalism .The question of permanent revolution is links to the internationalist view that seeks to liquidate capitalism at an international level , remember socialism cannot be build in one country but it is an international task. The moment a country is isolated , it cannot advance its complete socialist contraction . > > > > Yours for Socialism > > > > Ranney Jomo Segage > > Credit and Revenue Management > > Tel : 013 6934158 > > Fax : 013 6934186 > > Pax : 82214158 > > Cell : 0824710085 > > > > The denial of social contradictions leads to the denial of dialectics as a logical theory > > > > > > >>> "jerrymokoena" <[email protected]> 2010/04/07 10:35 AM >>> > > Cde VC > > > > > > > > Ours > Email truncated to 2,000 characters > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. 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