On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Amie A. S. Molelekwa <[email protected]> wrote: > Comrades don't be hypocrites because that is what (events) happened when Dr > James Moroka was elected President of ANC in 1949 when he accepted to lead > the defiance programme. There is nothing misleading and its quite clear some > comrades are prepared to see their scores been settled. At whose expense? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ngoako Mohlaloga > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 10:58 AM > To: [email protected]; > [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CU] History on side of the ANC youth league > >
History produces ideas and Ideas are capable to shape history in order to pursue the future. The only thing that is permanent under the sun is change. In this instance change may require the reviewal of relationships that the ANC has had with other liberation movements some of which have lost popularity in their own countries owing to corruption and other atrocities they subjected their people to post liberation. BMF has lost popularity in Botswana, FRELIMO is slowly loosing the ground in Mozambique and we all know the story of ZANUPF in Zimbabwe. At the advent of this proliferation of petty bourgeoisie asserting itself within the liberation moments across Africa and thus leading to depression in their countries and abuse of human rights, do we as the ANC hold to a distant past revolutionary mantle of these organisations or revert to our principles that guided us whilst in exile i.e arms struggle, international isolation and mass mobilisation. We cannot capitulate on the principle of respecting the sovereignty of other countries but should always align with calls for international isolation of countries whereby human rights are being trampled upon and dictatorship is enforced. At least that is what dialectical materialism engenders us to, it offers us an integral outlook to far drawn out global problems and is opposed to any form of deceit and superstition advanced by idealist such Julius Malema et al... Cde George Chair YCL Pretoria Central > -----Original Message----- > > From: mandlakhe radebe > > Sent: 29/08/2011, 09:46 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [CU] History on side of the ANC youth league > > > > > > Well said cde Ngoako. > > > > Don't be intimidated by insults. Surely Mandela, Sisulu and Tambo will > > be disappointed by such comparisons. These revolutioneries never > > paraded their buttocks in their conference, manipulated conference > > outcomes and unleashing police officers to deal with their political > > oppenents etc... > > > > This missive by Floyd is aimed at misleading many YL members who do > > not have access nor the ability to decipher these documents. Never > > seen such selective quotations! > > > > Most of us will never be hoodwinked! > > > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:21 AM, MONICA.SEEPAMORE > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Cde Kodlana > >> > >> I think comrade Floyd raised very interesting facts although himself, Mal > ema and the rest will never compare to the caliber of the stalwarts he ment > ioned. Besides one comrade has already indicated that Ntate Mandela, > Ntate Sisulu and others he mentioned were very diplomatic - they engaged th > e president discreetly and they were very disciplined, even if they did not > have access to media, despite their strong convictions I doubt they would > have resorted to contradicting policies of the organization in public. > >> > >> Monica > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:communist-university@ > googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kodlana > >> Sent: 28 August 2011 10:33 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [CU] History on side of the ANC youth league > >> > >> @eric.m > >> > >> Hey Mr Johny Cochran, then tell ur friend to stop writing as if he is int > oxicated. > >> > >> I am still waiting for someone to address issues that were raised by Floy > d. Since you have the audacity to defend him, please refute the issues rais > ed by Floyd, without resorting to insults. > >> Sent from my BlackBerry(r) wireless device > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> Sender: [email protected] > >> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 07:57:21 > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Reply-To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [CU] History on side of the ANC youth league > >> > >> Comrade Kodlana, Ngoako is sober if you want to see drunkards hang around > Juju or Floyd, then you'll never say Ngoako is drunk! > >> > >> Sent from my BlackBerry(r) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: "kodlana" <[email protected]> > >> Sender: [email protected] > >> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 05:26:24 > >> To: <[email protected]>; yclsa-eom-forum@googlegroups > .com<[email protected]>; [email protected]<ancyl@google > groups.com>; [email protected]<[email protected]> > >> Reply-To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [CU] History on side of the ANC youth league > >> > >> Ngoako, > >> > >> Instead of engaging on the issues raised by Floyd, u conveniently choose > to attack them. "Chances that he is corrupt 100%" what is that, are you dru > nk or what? I would like to know Mr Mathematician which calculation formula > 's gave u that percentage. > >> > >> You alleged that people are licking Malema's ass, without substantiating > your point with any proof or examples. > >> > >> What you wrote is nothing other than insults and English > >> > >> > >> Sent from my BlackBerry(r) wireless device > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: "Ngoako Mohlaloga" <[email protected]> > >> Sender: [email protected] > >> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 05:52:20 > >> To: [email protected]<[email protected]>; C > [email protected]<[email protected]> > ; [email protected]<[email protected]>; [email protected] > <[email protected]>; [email protected]<communis > [email protected]> > >> Reply-To: [email protected] > >> Subject: RE: [CU] History on side of the ANC youth league > >> > >> Floyd is too ambitious - comparing himself to the generation of Mandela, > OR and Sisulu is waaaaaaay tooooo ambitious . . . . and just we put the iss > ues into perspective; the charges have got nothing to do with the ANCYL's c > all for national - hence there should be no confusion. > >> > >> I also find if 'thick' for Floyd to make mention of 'Through The Eye of T > he Needle' - because if we were to apply the document on them; Julius Malem > a will clearly not make - first-up, there are serious allegations of corrup > tion levelled against him (chances that he is corrupt are 100%) - he would > then fall off the radar of this esteeme guiding policy of the ANC . . . . J > ulius has himself been bringing the ANCYL into when interfered with the wor > k of the organisation in the various provincial conferences (because he was > desperate to instill 'stooges' who will lick his ass) - the most notable e > xamples are the Eastern Cape and Limpopo Conferences . . . . the various po > stponements in the Eastern Cape and the duly elected delegates of the ANCYL > being 'moered' by the police who were ordered by Cassel Mathale . . . . > >> > >> For what it is worth - Mandela and Sisulu had some education (they did no > t fail Woodwork) and that helped them master the basic tactics of diplomacy > . . . . > >> > >> Julius Malema is a thief (the courts must just confirm that) and he does > inspire confidence among the youth in South Africa. He is a bully who uses > the power bestowed in him by the masses of our sensible people to wage self > sish battles. I hope the ANC does a sensible thing and show 'how the door ( > at 23:00)' . . . . the masses of the South African people (black and white) > will be far better of without him . . . . > >> > >> I remain; > >> > >> Ngoako Mohlaloga ! > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Moses Moyo > >> Sent: 28/08/2011, 06:50 > >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] > om; [email protected]; [email protected] > >> Subject: [CU] History on side of the ANC youth league > >> > >> > >> There is noble precedent for the league's actions - but not for the paren > t > >> body's reaction, writes Floyd ShivambuAT the risk of transgressing, we fe > el > >> obliged to put into context some of the issues the ANC Youth League has > >> raised, and which have beenrejected by certain sections of society. This > is > >> not an attempt to enter the so-called succession debate - something > >> forbidden by the ANC national executive committee in a statement on Tuesd > ay. > >> > >> Context will be better provided by referring to former President Nelson > >> Mandela, who all of us agree grew and developed in the ANC to become the > >> world's most celebrated revolutionary and icon of hope. > >> > >> On page 131 of his autobiography Mandela says: "We (Mandela, Walter Sisul > u > >> and Oliver Tambo in their capacity as leaders of the ANC Youth League) ga > ve > >> Dr Xuma (AB Xuma, then president of the ANC) an ultimatum - we would supp > ort > >> him for re-election to the presidency of the ANC provided he supported ou > r > >> proposed programme of action. > >> > >> "If he would not support our programme, we would not support him. Dr Xuma > >> became heated, accusing us of blackmail and laying down the conditions on > >> which we would vote for him. He told us that we were young and arrogant a > nd > >> treating him without respect. We remonstrated with him, but to no avail. > He > >> would not go along with our proposal. He unceremoniously showed us out of > >> his house at 11pm and closed the gate behind him." > >> > >> Mandela, Sisulu and Tambo represent the most outstanding generation of > >> freedom fighters across all liberation movements in Africa and the world. > >> These are the leaders who continue to inspire our determination to fight > for > >> the total liberation of the oppressed and exploited people of South Afric > a. > >> > >> In 1948, this generation of freedom fighters adopted a programme of actio > n, > >> a tool to mobilise society and structures of the ANC behind the call for > >> real freedom from colonial oppression and exploitation. This programme wa > s > >> adopted at the 1949 national conference of the ANC in Mangaung, and those > >> who know the evolution of the ANC will appreciate the impact it had in > >> changing its character into a fighting mass movement for all the people o > f > >> South Africa. > >> > >> The ultimate mobilisation and adoption of the Freedom Charter was a > >> consequence of the 1949 programme of action - which Mandela, Sisulu and > >> Tambo had been unceremoniously shown the way out of Xuma's house for > >> canvassing. > >> > >> The founding principles of South Africa's constitution are derived from t > he > >> Freedom Charter - save for a few guarantees and assurances which had to b > e > >> tactically made to secure transition from the racist, murderous apartheid > >> system to political democracy and inclusion. > >> > >> These developments were possible because the leadership of the ANC was no > t > >> intolerant of the leadership of the ANC Youth League . While they were > >> clearly irritated by the new proposals of the league, the leadership of t > he > >> ANC never resorted to organisational and political mechanisms to silence > the > >> voice of the youth. > >> > >> Imagine what might have happened if Xuma had, after chasing Mandela from > his > >> house, called the secretary-general of the ANC, James Calata, to lay char > ges > >> against him and his comrades? It would have meant that we would not have > had > >> a Mandela, a Tambo or a Sisulu. > >> > >> Despite the fact that their political, ideological and organisational > >> brilliance was shaped by the environment they existed in, these leaders h > ad > >> personal attributes from which the national liberation movement will fore > ver > >> benefit. > >> > >> They were never wished away by the leadership of the ANC. This is despite > >> the fact that almost no leaders of the ANC at the time were comfortable w > ith > >> the programme of action proposed and pioneered by the ANC Youth League. > >> > >> Professor ZK Matthews was one of the best leaders of the ANC of his > >> generation and joined Xuma in rejecting the youth league's proposals, yet > he > >> never said they should be wished away and exterminated from the national > >> liberation movement. > >> > >> The 1949 Mangaung conference of the ANC not only adopted the programme of > >> action, it failed to re-elect Xuma as president of the ANC, opting for mo > re > >> energetic leadership with courage to confront the enemy. > >> > >> These reflections are necessary because, on more than one occasion, some > >> among the leadership of the ANC have said it was un-ANC for the youth lea > gue > >> to mobilise society and the leadership of the ANC behind a policy positio > n. > >> > >> The current generation of youth league leaders and members have not yet > >> given anyone an ultimatum, and have instead chosen to engage all leaders > of > >> the ANC behind the vision for economic freedom in our lifetime. > >> > >> The current generation of youth league leaders and members have not diver > ted > >> from ANC traditions by saying the options for leadership will be determin > ed > >> through a commitment to a programme of action, with which all leaders of > the > >> ANC have the liberty to critically engage. > >> > >> We believe that leaders of the ANC were chosen for specific tasks and > >> missions, and how that changes in 2012 escapes our understanding of ANC > >> history, character and traditions. What else should the criteria of > >> leadership selection and preferences be, if not policy ? > >> > >> The ANC's "Through the Eye of the Needle" document says: "An ANC leader > >> should understand ANC policy and be able to apply it under all conditions > in > >> which she finds herself. This includes an appreciation, from the (nationa > l > >> democratic revolution) standpoint, of the country and the world we live i > n, > >> of the balance of forces, and of how continually to change this balance i > n > >> favour of the motive forces of change". > >> > >> This seminal document of the ANC further says: "A leader should lead by > >> example. He should be above reproach in his political and social conduct > - > >> as defined by our revolutionary morality." > >> > >> These are some of the issues that guide and inspire the current leadershi > p > >> of the youth league. > >> > >> If there are new rules of engagement and guidelines for how the leadershi > p > >> question should be approached, the youth league will subject itself to th > em, > >> because we understand that, while we have historically been granted the > >> space and opportunity to propose new policy positions, we have always bee > n > >> both an independent entity and an integral part of the ANC. > >> > >> We derive our existence from the constitution of the ANC, and our role as > >> defenders of the ANC and the revolution will never be neglected - along w > ith > >> the obligation to express honest and forward-looking perspectives and > >> opinions at all times. > >> > >> - Shivambu writes on behalf of the ANC Youth League national execu > tive > >> committee > >> > >> -- > >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > >> The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-Univer > sity > >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikis > pace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Communist-University-unsubs > [email protected]; or e-mail [email protected] > >> > >> -- > >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > >> The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-Univer > sity > >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikis > pace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Communist-University-unsubs > [email protected]; or e-mail [email protected] > >> > >> -- > >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > >> The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-Univer > sity > >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikis > pace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Communist-University-unsubs > [email protected]; or e-mail [email protected] > >> > >> -- > >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > >> The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-Univer > sity > >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikis > pace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Communist-University-unsubs > [email protected]; or e-mail [email protected] > >> > >> -- > >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > >> The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-Univer > sity > >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikis > pace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Communist-University-unsubs > [email protected]; or e-mail [email protected] > >> > >> -- > >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > >> The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-Univer > sity > >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikis > pace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Communist-University-unsubs > [email protected]; or e-mail [email protected] > >> > > > > -- > > You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > > The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-Universi > ty > > The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikispa > ce web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Communist-University-unsubscr > [email protected]; or e-mail [email protected] > > > -- > You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University > The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikispace > web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]; or e-mail > [email protected] > > -- > You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. > The group site is at http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University > The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our wikispace > web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]; or e-mail > [email protected] > -- You are subscribed. 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