Cde Ami You are not telling me or any of us anything new and are fudging with issues in the processes. I recommend you read my posting again, I never in any of my posting sought to rubish the issues that the ANCYL raise as nonsense. I am in full agreement with almost all of them at a principled level because they are obvious and widely known by all, however am disagreeing with the assumption that nationalisation will solve all the social and economic ills of our society and suddenly there will will be milk and honey as some propeth of doom just recently wrote in this forum in hyphotethical terms on Malema being Moses and future leaders going to be Joshua. The aforesaid is false prophesy.
We have come under a profound attack for suggesting that the compartmentalised nationalisation proposed by the ANCYL has inherent defects. That nationalisation is not progressive as all antagonistic forces in class struggle stand an equal opportunity to can hijack it to serve own class interest. We as communist, employing our principle that serve as a bedrock of the whole science of Marxism i.e dialectical materialism; argue that nothing is permanent under the sun except change. Capitalism has accomplished more than what all other systems that came before it accomplished combined, however it has reached a level of stagnancy as evidenced by its incapability to absorb and fully utilise all productive forces. This has lead to catastrophic high unemployment rates not only in South Africa but throughout the world. Consistent to our philosophy of dialectical materialism, we believe that capitalism must not want to be permanent, it must allow the only permanent feature under the sun i.e change to take place and it be replaced with another progressive system i.e socialism. We cannot be seeking for an easy way out of the problems we have, nationalisation is another why to extend the life span of capitalism.It will only take he or she who is well trained in class analysis to understand our rationale. Certainly our perspective wont find popular support overnight because is not populist in disposition, it is a philosophy that offers a man an integral outlook in broad and global sense, it is free of superstition, deceit and demagogy. It is a philosophy of dialectical materialism not philosophy of idealism.. There is still more coming, more jobs are going to be shed as the economies of all countries are struggling to recover from global recession that swept the world just recently. The developing and underdeveloped countries are going to e the hardest hit, the quality of life will deteriorate even further until people are mobilised behind the red flag across the world to demand an end of the capitalist system. The only crisis i predict is how the ruling elite will fall victim to the angry and desperate masses who will apportion the fault to them justifiably so because they are managing with their bear hands the impending crisis of a very old and archaic system in form of capitalism! Cde George On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Amie A. S. Molelekwa <[email protected]> wrote: > Cde George > > Your mistake is not to recognize that Julius Malema is the President of the > ANCYL and for that matter a leader of young people in this country. You say > that "The difference is the fact that Malema and his troops parade as heroes > who have discovered a lasting solution to this erstwhile societal challenges > i.e. unemployment and resultant poverty, education, land question and proper > health care though their compartmentalized and utopian nationalization", they > are not parading as heroes but are implementing the programme of action of > the ANCYL. > > The ANC NWC statement released before the march dismissed the theory that > some of you comrades peddled through the media that the march is not about > the issues the ANCYL is raising. It said that "The Working Committee is > satisfied that the objectives of the march are legitimate and arise from the > resolutions of the Youth League Congress held in June this year. The ANC > supports the right of all South Africans including the Youth League to > peaceful campaigns for legitimate goals. The NWC urged the Youth League to > ensure an orderly procession and received assurances from the Youth League > that they will control the marchers and deal firmly with any agent > provocateurs who would attempt to derail the march. After an elaborate > engagement the parties agreed on the following: That the march was neither > against the ANC Government nor linked to the 2012 elective National > Conference of the ANC". > > The ANCYL is relevant in this case. > > Regards, > > Amie > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tshegofatso > Mogaladi > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:00 PM > To: [email protected]; YCL SA Discussion Blog > Subject: Re: [CU] History was made this week by the long walk to economic > freedom march > > Cde Setlakalane > > Let me at the outset state that I have no reason to believe that all > the crisis that Mr Malema faces are motivated by the issues he is > raising. Unless we are forgetfully, all the issues he is raising have > always in one way or the other being encapsulated in the manifestos of > the ANC for all previous post democracy national and local government > elections. Actually, for the fact that they quote the freedom charter, > a document that is almost 57 years old today illuminates the age of > this issues. The difference is the fact that Malema and his troops > parade as heros who have discovered a lasting solution to this > earstwhile sociatal challenges i.e unemployment and resultant > poverty,education, land question and proper health care though their > compartmentalised and and utopian nationalisation. > > Surely you know numerous civil movements that have been raising the > same issues but never got to the large scale of mobilisation like the > events of the previous week had manage. Certainly we ought to agree > that we know that there is inequity in our society, that something has > went off with our education system, there is skills imparity in our > society and largely along racial lines with blacks at the back foot, > that property relations (land being a subset) are still in favor of > the minority and thus put them in charge of the means of production > and are at the behest of the economy. Yet we cannot disengage and join > every Jim and Jack who is loud mouthed enough to lead a march, that is > why we cannot join Trevor Ngwana and his club, that is why we cannot > join the protests led by the Antiprivitasation forum because we know > the hidden agenda that they stand for. Is Malema incapable of using > this legitimate and old societal challenges to advance his own > interest? Can you you refute and possible undermine the concerns of > 'his detractors' that Malema may be using this legitimate and old > societal challenges to resolve his possibly eminent legal woes? > > I do not agree with you in so far as the implied message of living > like whites is concerned. We both know how simplistic Malema is, when > he says "Makula' ( Colies) he means people of the Indian tribe and is > not wary of derogatory implications thereof. I shall not go into > details trying to analyse implications were the beare is non to be an > outstanding master of simplicity. At least I am not part of those who > dismiss the issues he is raising as rubbish, what I am saying is > consistent with my argument that he his authority is questionable over > matters of the poor. His obsession to material accumulation puts him > at the side way of the struggle by the poor for good living. > Consistent with your argument that he did not imply whites in literal > terms thus imply he should have said 'when they ask you why you are > marching, say you want to live like Julius Male'. In your analytic > assessment of what is implied you pointed to the wealth barrier and > skills barrier, in which part of this barrier is Julius Malema? He is > definitely in the wealthy party of it, the part that forms a small and > yet a very effective part of the ruling elite in the state. This is > the part that dictates on what legislation are passed and which are > not that is why we are still struggling with property relations (land > being the subset) some 57 years or so post the adoption of the freedom > charter. > > Cde George > > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 1:02 PM, setlakalane molepo > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Dear Comrade George, >> The expression to live like whites is not literal it is symbolical. You see >> whiteness is equivalent to good, godliness to some. So the president of the >> ANCYL is saying we want to break the class barrier, the wealth barrier and >> the skills barrier because in this country being born "black" is equivalent >> to an everlasting fight to break away from the "blackness" and be seen as a >> different black person who is not too black or not black at all for example. >> Ms Lindiwe Mazibuko will be seen by whites as unlike black people. My >> blackness for example has made me to work twice or even more as hard as >> compared to whites. >> Therefore we want to live like whites, we simply want to be judged justly >> and equitably in whatever we do, we simply want to have the same >> opportunities available to whites who most do not even go to institutions of >> higher learning as corporate South Africa 's qualification of entry is still >> " the good whiteness". How many of us have been in situations where we have >> degrees and our managers do not even have a matric, they were skilled >> through on the job courses to be on managerial level. >> Therefore whiteness is many things other than the balance of your bank >> account it is a passport to enter doors that are more welcoming by virtue of >> being classified "good". >> We who supported the march we did so knowing very well the perceived "rotten >> dirt of corruption" of its leader and it is not a surprise that after the >> march, the weekend papers will display the leader in a life of opulence, we >> expected that because the media as well as others who still question why we >> support Malema, think we are stupid followers of a leader who is >> a contradiction to the cause he is fighting for. >> My understanding is that Malema is fighting for principles that all should >> share equally to the wealth of this country and the marginalized and >> oppressed should be emancipated by the big corporations who are amassing the >> mineral wealth of this country for themselves only, and government should >> take control of the mines so that it can have money to improve the quality >> of lives of the marginalized through free education, free housing and >> etc.The marginalized should have land that was taken from their forefathers >> without paying a cent, so that they can start commercial farming and improve >> their dire economical conditions. >> So does this principles become irrelevant and not worth supporting simply >> because the leader is rich and will after the march with the down trodden >> jet off to far away places to party like a millionaire? My answer is >> definitely no, Malema,the multi millionaire is better placed to voice the >> needs of the oppressed because by virtue of his standing in society he >> cannot be ignored. >> All the negative factors being put to the fore about Malema, make us to >> resolve our support for him even more, because we know that the >> agenda behind the negative reporting is to silence him and to make his cause >> of fighting for the poor an embarrassment and a non issue. Forward economic >> freedom forward. I am sure many of his detractors are waiting for the day >> the HAWKS nail him for his alleged underhand business tactics to say AHA! we >> told you and I put it to you once more, also that will be irrelevant, our >> eyes are on the cause. >> >> Regards >> Cde Setlakalane >> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Tshegofatso Mogaladi >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> How interesting that you want us to believe that you made history by >>> demanding to live like whites whilst you do not even live like your >>> own Julius? It is a bizzaar expectation to can want to live like >>> whites overnight, their wealth came as a result of an almost century >>> long of enslaving blacks to maximise their profits, consistent >>> exploitation of opportunities based on race during the apartheid >>> regime, looting and all other sorts of white collar crimes. The first >>> step on part of the well mobilised youth should be a desire to live >>> like Juju himself who in just about the past six years was just like >>> me and you but is suddenly amongst the country's millioners, courtesy >>> of tendeprenuring. I wonder what is your opinion about the fact that >>> our Julius after ''historic march'' jetted off to Mauritius for a >>> R10000000.00 worth of a wedding ceremony. And by the way that is not a >>> white man's wedding... >>> >>> Cde George >>> Pretoria >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:04 PM, setlakalane molepo >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Well Comrade Somcuba it is the truth, what I write is always my true >>> > view >>> > and thoughts and I guess that I have a lot of discredits if I want to >>> > embark >>> > on a political career because I am too honest. I do not change my true >>> > feelings for fear of being victimized.My views and thoughts might be >>> > right >>> > or wrong but I will always express them no matter who the audience is. I >>> > also joined this group because I wanted to engage and learn from >>> > communists. >>> > I thank you. >>> > >>> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Somcuba Samuel (GAU) >>> > <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I thank you comrade setlakalane molepo that you have realised beyond >>> >> reasonable doubt that YCL educates cadres “tried desperately to look >>> >> for >>> >> you, as at that stage I had the desire to be politically schooled and I >>> >> know >>> >> you are good at that but I ended up throwing in a towel and my >>> >> political >>> >> home was only the ANCYL”. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Thanks for telling the truth, it is revolutionary to tell the truth. At >>> >> least you know some. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Regards, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Samuel Somcuba >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ________________________________ >>> >> >>> >> From: [email protected] >>> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of setlakalane >>> >> molepo >>> >> Sent: 28 October 2011 02:48 PM >>> >> >>> >> To: [email protected] >>> >> Subject: Re: [CU] History was made this week by the long walk to >>> >> economic >>> >> freedom march >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Julius 's constituency is not in summits and please do us a favour YCL, >>> >> accept that you are not a proactive organization, you cannot ever take >>> >> initiative and engage the masses on your own, you are best a wait and >>> >> support organization. This time you missed a opportunity to brag about >>> >> how >>> >> successful your joint much with the ANCYL was, because you >>> >> miscalculated the >>> >> level of support of President Julius Malema and their intelligence, you >>> >> thought the march was going to be an embarrassment. Stop this academic >>> >> meetings and events of yours and be visible to the masses not only be >>> >> vissible at ANC rallies or COSATU rallies. Myself at some stage I >>> >> wanted to >>> >> join the YCL , I phoned the number i got from the website as your >>> >> contact >>> >> details and I was told that you had moved offices and the number >>> >> belongs to >>> >> some affiliate of COSATU, I tried desperately to look for you, as at >>> >> that >>> >> stage I had the desire to be politically schooled and I know you are >>> >> good at >>> >> that but I ended up throwing in a towel and my political home was only >>> >> the >>> >> ANCYL. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Therefore indeed be visible create branches and stop being a group of >>> >> scholars. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Yours, >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Setlakalane >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Siyabonga Gasa <[email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Julius is a hypocrite he has just demonstrated how to abuse activism >>> >> and misuse power and status of being a leader of an Anc structure..he >>> >> has regretably missed an opportunity of engaging YCL & civil society >>> >> in a Youth summit..instead he marched for fear of being exposed as a >>> >> hollow motormouth..the man leaves in a lap of luxury..his objectives >>> >> of showing off is over.. now he'll romp to a very exclusive Zar bar to >>> >> triumphantly reflect on the mob he had mobilised. The destitute are >>> >> back to their substandard dwellings. >>> >> >>> >> What are success indicators for the march? Surely not the ppl who >>> >> boosted his bloated ego! Let's wait and see. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> What >>> >> >>> >> On 10/28/11, kodlana <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > Cde Setlakalane, >>> >> > >>> >> > Ur support for the YL President is good thing and ur not alone. Some >>> >> > in >>> >> > this >>> >> > forum do support him as well, but they are afraid of voicing that, >>> >> > because >>> >> > of the fear of ridiculed. >>> >> >>> >> > Sent from my BlackBerryŽ wireless device >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > -----Original Message----- >>> >> > From: setlakalane molepo <[email protected]> >>> >> > Sender: [email protected] >>> >> > Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:52:00 >>> >> >>> >> > To: <[email protected]> >>> >> > Reply-To: [email protected] >>> >> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [CU] History was made this week by the long walk to >>> >> > economic >>> >> > freedom march >>> >> > >>> >> > Dear Comrades >>> >> > >>> >> > I must say I am not surprised at all with the responses I am getting. >>> >> > You >>> >> > must be thinking this is another uninformed, member of a member (a >>> >> > term >>> >> > I borrowed from some of comments in this group) who is not au fait >>> >> > with >>> >> > real ideological policies, principles of the mass democratic >>> >> > movement >>> >> > and I >>> >> > concede and confirm your preconceived judgments and so do many of >>> >> > his >>> >> > followers. My appreciation of Julius Malema is that he goes where >>> >> > others >>> >> > dare to go, he is fearless and that's why we love him. I don't care >>> >> > about >>> >> > his wealth and how he got, he is not the only tenderpreneur or >>> >> > politician >>> >> > cum millionaire/billionaire, the difference is that his wealth is >>> >> > exposed >>> >> > because he must be silenced for telling the truth about the plight of >>> >> > the >>> >> > poor Africans/ for his fall out with JZ. At least even when he is >>> >> > living >>> >> > a millionaire life he does not forget to go and listen to his >>> >> > constituency. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Regards >>> >> > >>> >> > Setlakalane >>> >> > >>> >> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 1:25 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> ** Thanks for the update cadre. >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> So I gather as the masses start their long journey home in buses and >>> >> >> taxis >>> >> >> (most with no air-condition) back to their normal lives in squatter >>> >> >> camps, >>> >> >> townships and villages, while the leadership is cruising in their >>> >> >> chauffeur-driven Range Rovers to their multi-million rands mansions. >>> >> >> Perhaps >>> >> >> they will via Tzar and pop bottles of Blanc, Dom Perignon and god >>> >> >> knows >>> >> >> what >>> >> >> other Champaign to celebrate a successful march. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> The marchers from far flung areas such 'No body', 'My darling' and >>> >> >> 'Nquza' >>> >> >> would, at least, celebrate the fact that had a nice long trip free >>> >> >> of >>> >> >> charge >>> >> >> and t-shirts paid for by unknown business people. But as soon as >>> >> >> tomorrow >>> >> >> they will be facing the reality they faced on Wednesday. Indeed it >>> >> >> is >>> >> >> true >>> >> >> that Julius will be mentioned in the history books but whether in >>> >> >> the >>> >> >> same >>> >> >> breath with icons such OR Tambo, Lembede et al is another question. >>> >> >> History >>> >> >> will be the judge. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Comradely, >>> >> >> Mandla >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >>> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >> *From: * setlakalane molepo <[email protected]> >>> >> >> *Sender: * [email protected] >>> >> >> *Date: *Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:01:47 +0200 >>> >> >> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> >> >> *ReplyTo: * [email protected] >>> >> >> *Subject: *[CU] History was made this week by the long walk to >>> >> >> economic >>> >> >>> >> >> freedom march >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Comrades I am proud to say I was part of history, I took part in the >>> >> >> beginning of the struggle for economic freedom as my president said >>> >> >> it >>> >> >> it >>> >> >> does not end today at the Union buildings, it is the beginning, we >>> >> >> must >>> >> >> make >>> >> >> everyone buy in the the struggle for economic freedom, at parties or >>> >> >> funerals or weddings everywhere we must end our meetings with the >>> >> >> call >>> >> >> for >>> >> >> the economic freedom. The memorandum was signed comrades. Go signa >>> >> >> mo >>> >> >> ga >>> >> >> se morabaraba*singing* To those who think the people who took part >>> >> >> in >>> >> >> this >>> >> >> march are blind followers of President Julius Malema guess what even >>> >> >> if >>> >> >> President Julius Malema can be removed, he has planted the seed and >>> >> >> when >>> >> >> the >>> >> >> history books are written, his name will be mentioned in the same >>> >> >> breath >>> >> >> as >>> >> >> that of Cde Oliver Tambo and Cde Nelson Mandela who led the struggle >>> >> >> for >>> >> >> political freedom, for his leading of the struggle for economic >>> >> >> freedom. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. >>> >> >> The group site is at >>> >> >> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University >>> >> >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our >>> >> >> wikispace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >> >> [email protected]; or e-mail >>> >> >> [email protected] >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. >>> >> >> The group site is at >>> >> >> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University >>> >> >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our >>> >> >> wikispace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >> >> [email protected]; or e-mail >>> >> >> [email protected] >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. >>> >> > The group site is at >>> >> > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University >>> >> > The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our >>> >> > wikispace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >> > [email protected]; or e-mail >>> >> > [email protected] >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. >>> >> > The group site is at >>> >> > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University >>> >> > The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our >>> >> > wikispace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >> > [email protected]; or e-mail >>> >> > [email protected] >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Sent from my mobile device >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. >>> >> The group site is at >>> >> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University >>> >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our >>> >> wikispace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >> [email protected]; or e-mail >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. >>> >> The group site is at >>> >> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University >>> >> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our >>> >> wikispace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >> [email protected]; or e-mail >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> >>> >> DISCLAIMER: >>> >> This message and any attachments are confidential and intended solely >>> >> for >>> >> the addressee. 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