Yes of course I am maintaining that steve, his analysis is in limbo because he is trapped in the darkness from his stand point because steve as usual start his analysis by indicating the number which is incorrect of the people who attended the march, now if the premise to which you start an analysis with is incorrect you are likely to arrive at wrong conclusions, either as one peruse will give steve benefit of the doubt that maybe the premise should not be considered as one still want to deepen analysis, but as one continue the errors of analysis perpetuate here he argues "If we consider that marchers were bused in from all over the country and that weeks of planning went into the event, this was not a show of popular support, it was a demonstration of its absence. This was not evidence that the l eague and its president, Julius Malema, had far greater support on the ground than we thought. It was further evidence that their presumed support among the poor and the jobless is largely a myth." This presupposes that the organization leading the march its members were not organically involved they had to experience the centrifugal forces in order for the to form part of the march, which I think again steve as usual made an error of analysis in relation to the conscious of the participants. Steve as a renowned researcher should have went to the marchers and seek to understand their thinking behind the support rather that to sit in the office and wait to lament on which is reality and myth on proletariat.
Secondly again he says "the poor and weak in this society are talked about -- they do not speak" maybe part of the reason he did not check with the marchers is because he has this thinking, but steve must know from today that the poor people in south Africa talks and further think that's why they don't just vote without the understanding of the manifesto so steve want us to believe that the poor are so weak that they cant speak on the ,material conditions they find themselves in, it is is a true lie I will further post my critic on the views of steve On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 03:31:06 -0700 (PDT) bonginkosi innocent wrote Interesting Comrade Pupuru.Would you give us solid information though.what factors and indepth information you think is devoid in his analysis.In critiquing at this level,don't you think it is important to base it on solid points(poking holes).Again what is the relationship between age and the article,comrade. From: pupuru motebejane To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] BusinessDay - STEVEN FRIEDMAN: Avarice masquerading as the voice of the poor Steve again,eish his analysis is again devoid of factors and lacks indepth understanding of his subject objectively,steve i think the age is capturing you so this has again,an effect with the way you analyse situations and issues because in what u have written im struggling to locate jist of what you want to locate. On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:16:42 +0000 [email protected] [1] wrote > Friedman had nothing better to do. > > I shall respond > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Setja Diphoko" > Sender: [email protected] [3] > Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 07:57:50 > To: CU-LJ; > Reply-To: [email protected] [6] > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] BusinessDay - STEVEN FRIEDMAN: Avarice > masquerading as the voice of the poor > > IF ANY evidence were still needed that those involved in our national debate > have no idea what goes on in the minds and lives of 70% of the people, last > week's African National Congress Youth League-induced frenzy provided it. > > About 5000 people are said to have joined the league's "economic freedom" > march. This is less than half the number of people who last year joined a > march in support of a campaign for libraries in schools. It is at most a > quarter of those who joined protests organised by the Treatment Action > Campaign to demand a comprehensive government response to AIDS. Trade unions > regularly organise larger marches. > > And yet none of these events attracted the media coverage or commentary that > was lavished on the youth league march. And none attracted the same hyped-up > rhetoric and breathless sensationalism. > > If we consider that marchers were bused in from all over the country and that > weeks of planning went into the event, this was not a show of popular > support, it was a demonstration of its absence. This was not evidence that > the l eague and its president, Julius Malema, had far greater support on the > ground than we thought. It was further evidence that their presumed support > among the poor and the jobless is largely a myth. > > That neither the media nor much of our public commentary understood this is > not surprising. As this column has pointed out before, the poor and weak in > this society are talked about -- they do not speak. And those who talk about > them are far more interested in them as an abstract support for pet theories > and political projects than as real human beings. Which is why there is much > enthusiasm for talking about the poor but no eagerness to talk to, or listen > to, them. > > The youth league march was clearly a gathering of the politically connected, > not of the excluded. And, for not the first time, our reporting and analysis > cannot tell the difference, presumably because it has no idea of who the poor > are or what they do. > > That is why, at Polokwane, and at Jacob Zuma 's court appearances, > commentators confused the activists who had gathered with the poor. And it is > why the league's leaders and those whose bidding they do find it so easy to > pass off their desire for power and wealth as the voice of the disadvantaged. > > To point this out is not to deny that poverty in general and youth > unemployment in particular are serious threats to the wellbeing of our > society. Many young people do feel frustrated and alienated and they do take > to the streets to demand that they be taken seriously. But they do not do > this at the behest of or in support of Malema or the league. They have been > doing it for some years now on the streets of many our townships and shack > settlements. But their protests are seen not as important messages that need > to be understood, but as inconveniences to be explained away by the catch-all > slogan, "service delivery protests". > > While much of this youth rebellion remains unorganised -- or organised by > ambitious local politicians seeking power -- some of the poor and the > unemployed do join organisations; social movements whose reach among the poor > remains limited but who are more in touch with the poor than the league has > ever been. > > But these are largely ignored by much of the national debate. It is far more > convenient -- and exciting -- to pretend that ambitious insiders spouting > slogans speak for those at the grassroots than to make the effort to find out > how the other three-quarters really live. > > The frenzy the youth league march provoked is an indictment of our national > debate. It shows how little the talk of what is wrong with our society and > what needs to be done to fix it are based on a concrete understanding of the > lives of most of our citizens, and how prone we are to regard the world of > the connected in which we move as the world in which everyone moves. > > Nor is this problem restricted to the media and commentators. > > It affects much of the academic community too. It is reflected in our > tendency to confuse what people at the last cocktail party or conference said > in response to the party or talk shop before it as the truth about lived > grassroots reality in this society. And in the extent to which we insist that > the lives of most of our citizens can be understood through textbooks and > theories rather than an attempt to learn and listen. > > We cannot understand our society, let alone know how to address its many > problems, unless we take life at its grassroots and those who live it far > more seriously than we have done. > > We cannot do this as long as we confuse the connected with those on whose > behalf they claim to speak. > > We cannot do it as long as academics, reporters and commentators see the poor > not as fellow citizens to be understood but as convenient vehicles for our > prejudices. > > * Friedman is director of the Centre for the Study of Democracy. > Lesetja Diphoko > "Sent via my BlackBerry" > > > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] [7] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum [8] for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] [9] . > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put > anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this > address (repeat): [email protected] [10] . > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] [11] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum [12] for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] [13] . > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put > anything in the message part. 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