But cde sive, honestly can u be born again if u were to be preached by a drunked, i gues not. it is this reason that as cummunist one aught to be ideologically conscious. you dont entertain views just because they are views, u must also check the merits of those views.
On 3/30/12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Floyd has become MR suspension and expulsion in SASCO he was suspended in > YCL he was expelled now in the ANC well I guess you reap what you sow . > Floyd indeed needs divine intervention shame I feel for this comrade > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Rosina Masoa" <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:07:37 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [YCLSA Discussion] Floyd Shivambu unplugged: M&G article > > its not about being out of order but by serving his imperialist masters .to > set the record straight they will never derail our road to a socialist south > afrika .he flyod must not forget basics as to what is state ,democracy and > goverment . the point is no equality in capitalism except monopoly on > leadership .the queen an pope cannot rule our country for ever we will > decide our leaders full stop .by afrika > > _____ > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: 30 March 2012 10:28 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Floyd Shivambu unplugged: M&G article > > > Cde Sive, > > There is nothing to discuss here. Floyd is out of order! > > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > _____ > > From: [email protected] > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:22:34 +0000 > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Floyd Shivambu unplugged: M&G article > > What is a purpose of this forum? > > Is it to agree with each other? Is about views that suit us communists, only > or even those with views that are slightly going astray? > > We learn by being engaged and by being persuaded to the truth not our myopic > views. > > Leave Floyd and discuss what he wrote. > > Let's not degenerate... This was posted deliberately here, so that we > respond to personality... > > > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > _____ > > From: [email protected] > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:17:14 +0000 > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Floyd Shivambu unplugged: M&G article > > Yhoooooooooooo! He is gone! > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > _____ > > From: [email protected] > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:16:19 +0000 > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Floyd Shivambu unplugged: M&G article > > When he gets there he will be labelled a political refugee... > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > _____ > > From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:14:54 +0200 > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Floyd Shivambu unplugged: M&G article > > > Floyd is on his way to the DA. > > Floyd and Lindiwe Mazibuko will soon be holding hands under the motherly > smiles of Zille. > > VC > > > > On 30 March 2012 09:53, Boyce Mpempe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Cdes lets allow Floyd some space to continue winking in the dark. > Suddenly he is a legal analyst. Thanks for nothing Floyd! > > > On 3/30/12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> This article has Chikane tendencies embedded in it and comrades we must > not >> forget it is written out of anger and frustration. >> >> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Trevor Kekana" <[email protected]> >> Sender: [email protected] >> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:42:54 > >> To: <[email protected]> >> Reply-To: [email protected] >> Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Floyd Shivambu unplugged: M&G article >> >> >> >> In December the ANC will have its 53rd national conference in Mangaung. >> Almost all the media are speculating about what the real issues of focus >> will be -- and those relating to leadership elections seem to be >> elevated above all other issues. There is, however, an elephant in the >> room. >> >> No one is paying significant attention to it, either because they are >> oblivious or because they fear those with state power will suppress and >> isolate them if they speak about this issue. At the risk of being >> isolated and purged, I want to address the elephant in the room -- which >> is the reality that President Jacob Zuma is accused of corruption and >> has yet to have these allegations tested in court. >> >> >> >> It is a matter of fact that the state, of which President Zuma is head, >> has a prima facie case to which he should answer in a court of law. In >> 2009 the charges against him were withdrawn on the basis of the >> gossiping and backchat of some senior National Prosecution Authority >> (NPA) officials about whether President Zuma should be arrested before >> or after the 52nd ANC national conference in Polokwane in 2007. >> >> These officials are not said to have concocted charges against President >> Zuma. They are said to have discussed when he should be arrested and >> brought before a court to respond to allegations that he illegally >> exchanged monies with a shady individual, Schabir Shaik, who was >> described by the prosecution as -having a "generally corrupt >> relationship" with President Zuma. The high court's judgment was that >> Shaik was guilty. >> >> The Supreme Court of Appeal has been deciding whether a high court >> review of the decision to drop charges could proceed. Whatever else can >> be said, the reality is that the then acting national director of public >> prosecutions, advocate Mokotedi Mpshe, shelved principle for political >> convenience in 2009 as a result of political dynamics in the country. >> The ANC, its leagues and the alliance were unanimous that Jacob Zuma >> should become president of South Africa and a majority in society >> accepted that. For the sake of political convenience, which seemed to be >> a principled intervention at the time, advocate Mpshe decided to >> withdraw the charges -- not on the basis that President Zuma did not >> commit the crimes, but on the basis that those prosecuting him were >> gossiping about when to arrest him. It was the result of public pressure >> from members and supporters of the ANC, including the commitment to "die >> and take up arms to kill for Zuma" of ANC Youth League president Julius >> Malema. >> >> Now the people who were gossiping about when and how to bring President >> Zuma to account are no longer in the NPA. Yet the fact that the state >> has a case against him remains. >> >> Equality before the law >> The ANC fought for political freedom on the non-negotiable principle >> that all should be equal before the law. This found expression in the >> Freedom Charter: "There shall be equal status in the bodies of the >> state, in the courts and in the schools for all national groups and >> races." >> >> The principle was reinforced in the Constitution of a democratic South >> Africa. Those who drafted the Constitution deliberately avoided >> "presidential immunity" because they had learned how that could make >> leaders refuse to step down from office and opt for "aloota continua", >> protected from prosecution. >> >> As a test of our constitutional democracy, we should allow a court of >> law to determine whether President Zuma violated the law or not. He >> should voluntarily answer to the allegations. To protect the integrity >> of our democracy, the ANC leadership should be exemplary in all matters >> relating to the Constitution. >> >> If the ANC and its leadership undermine the Constitution for political >> convenience, South Africa's democracy is under serious threat. South >> Africa could degenerate into a banana republic in which state machinery >> is used to settle political scores and shift the balance of forces. >> >> If the truth be told, any president facing the possibility of being >> arrested is dangerous to himself and the nation. Naturally, hoping to >> avoid arrest, such a president will surround himself with cronies and >> blind loyalists in key state security institutions. Such a president >> could even try to change the Constitution and the law to protect himself >> from prosecution, or find a way of undermining court decisions through >> political power. >> >> Now, the appeal court has passed judgment against President Zuma, saying >> that a high court review of the 2009 decision can proceed. >> >> Courts shouldn't resolve political squabbles >> No one in their true political senses would ever agree with the >> Democratic Alliance's use of the courts to determine political battles >> and processes. The ANC Youth League rejected this view on various >> occasions and we remain firm on it. The DA is not representative of the >> people of South Africa and does not deserve an iota of respect from >> anyone. >> >> The illusion that those in the ANC-led national liberation movement who >> defend the equality clause of the Constitution are "liberal democrats" >> should be dismissed with contempt. Some of us have, with no support from >> the leadership, been proponents of amending section 25 of the >> Constitution to realise real and genuine equality. >> >> Since the beginning of allegations of corruption, fraud and money >> laundering against President Zuma, most of us have been solid and vocal >> in defending him against conspiracies to prevent him from becoming >> president of South Africa. >> >> Our view, which we expressed openly, was that those who had control of >> the criminal justice system, or who acted on the pretext of protecting >> then-president Thabo Mbeki, used state institutions to prevent Jacob >> Zuma from assuming the highest political office in the land. >> >> We stood firm against the abuse of state institutions for narrow >> political purposes. We never said or insinuated that we supported >> corrupt practices. We opposed, and continue to oppose, the abuse of >> state institutions for political purposes and we are firmly opposed to >> all crimes, particularly those such as corruption, which deprive the >> poor masses of resources that could liberate them from poverty and >> starvation. >> >> The Supreme Court of Appeal's judgment says advocate Mpshe's 2009 >> decision to drop charges is reviewable. It can be reviewed because, in a >> democratic South Africa, all are equal before the law. >> >> No one can believably argue now that state institutions are being used >> to prevent Jacob Zuma becoming president -- he is the president of South >> Africa. >> >> There is a case to answer >> In dropping the charges, advocate Mpshe did not claim there was no case >> to answer, but said that interference by some NPA and Scorpions >> officials suggested there were also ulterior motives for charging him -- >> it was not just a matter of justice. >> >> The conspiracies that led to this situation no longer exist. Those who >> had ulterior motives are no longer in the NPA or the Scorpions. Yet the >> state still has a prima facie case of corruption, money laundering and >> fraud that President Zuma must answer. >> >> The interference that happened then did not remove the possibility that >> he could have been involved in a corrupt relationship with those who >> have already been convicted in court. >> >> If there is dissatisfaction with the involvement of some NPA >> prosecutors, the president's legal representatives have the right to >> raise this matter in court. >> >> If it is true to its values and principles, the ANC should call on >> President Zuma not to appeal the judgment of the appeal court, but to >> allow all due processes to continue uninterrupted. In fact, President >> Zuma should welcome the possibility of going to court, because that is >> the only way he will clear the dark cloud over his head. >> >> It cannot be right that, for so many years, the ANC and South Africa as >> a whole have not been able to get to the bottom of these allegations. In >> allowing the law's processes to happen uninterrupted, President Zuma >> will retain his innocence until proven otherwise and will be treated >> like all innocent people. >> >> Kgalema sets an example >> Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe recently approached the public >> protector to investigate him over allegations of wrongdoing on his part. >> President Zuma should follow this noble example. >> >> He should avoid the temptation to try to stop the courts listening to >> his case by causing unnecessary delays. Further delays will bring doubt, >> even in the ranks of the ANC, that there is perhaps a possibility that >> he did indeed commit the crimes of which he is accused. >> >> This approach will reaffirm the integrity of the ANC as a movement >> committed to the fight against corruption and all criminal acts, which >> the Polokwane conference said was a priority. >> >> The criminal justice system will also lose integrity, and will be >> regarded as being open to manipulation in the future, if this case is >> not responded to in a proper and fair trial. The approach of allowing >> due process will further enhance and harness the state's fight against >> corruption. >> >> The ANC and all its formations and allies should always stand firm on >> principles. We will never agree to be drawn into defending possibly >> corrupt individuals, because corruption is like a cancer eating away at >> the moral fibre of society. >> >> Whether we will be purged or persecuted for expressing this view does >> not matter. The truth must be told at all times, without fear or favour. >> Only factionalists and proponents of tribalism and corruption can stand >> opposed to the accountability of the leadership, and unfortunately I am >> not one. >> > >> Floyd Shivambu is the spokesperson of the ANC Youth League. He writes in >> his personal capacity >> >> >> >> >> http://www.investec.com/legal/email-disclaimer.html >> >> The disclaimer also provides our corporate information and names of our >> directors as required by law. >> >> The disclaimer is deemed to form part of this message in terms of Section > 11 >> of the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act 25 of 2002. >> If you cannot access the disclaimer, please obtain a copy thereof from us > by >> sending an email to: [email protected] >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] > . >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. 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