Point on VC, you nailed it Commander! Robert Greene's work is not on the same level as "Machiavelli", his books are nothing but self help book or books and not literature that will stand the test of time same as his book on Attraction and I agree with you they may not need to be discussed in this group, those are feel good books and not worthy to be discussed here.
Before we know it we will be discussing self help books or tips like we are some sort of a support group! But oh well mine is just an opinion and again not all literature books deserve to be discussed in this group! Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone. -----Original Message----- From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:46:13 To: YCLSA EOM Forum<[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Robert Greene 's 48 Laws of Power. That is what is called "Guilt by association", comrade Sandile. You have not made any critical distinctions between these works. You have only said, in effect, these two are good, and these other two are bad. Then you say that Machiavelli is like Greene, therefore Machiavelli is bad. In fact, Machiavelli's "Prince" has frequent references to both history and to current events, and it is not a mere list of sayings, like this Greene's work and like Sun Tzu. "The Prince" is also written in prose, and not in numbered or bullet-pointed lists. Although now more than 500 years old, it is constructed as comparative critical political literature. In these respects it is similar to what we normally use, and different from the Sun Tzus of this world. If you are looking for the history of "Umrabulo" in the modern (bourgeois) era, then you cannot avoid Machiavelli, or Hobbes, or Clausewitz or Hegel, in my opinion. If you look at "Theories of Surplus Value", a.k.a. "Capital, Volume 4", you will find that Karl Marx read many books from prior times, and many more are mentioned in the text and in the footnotes of the other three volumes of "Capital". Marxism is not outside of history, or outside of the history of ideas. As for "The Eye of the Needle" article from Umrabulo (there is also a different, previous book by that name by the late Rick Turner), it is not perfect. Far from it. Nor is "How to be a Good Communist" perfect. It gets even wackier after Chapter 1. All of these documents should be read critically. But we can surely do without reading those that are mere lists of platitudes. Those ones belong elsewhere, and not with scholarly historical work, in my opinion. At any rate, they are not helpful to us. VC On 11 February 2013 16:43, <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > Robert Greene's book comes from a long tradition of titles which promote > megalomania; namely Sun Tzu's 'The Art of war' and Machiaveli's 'The > Prince'. These texts, collectively form an anthology of how to become a > blood thirsty, manipulative, despot. > > These texts, including Robert Greene's, fall short of providing an > acceptable description of how revolutionaries should relate to authority > entrusted to them democratically as defined in 'Through the Eye of the > Needle' and 'How to be a Good Communist' to mention but a few. > > That being so, I would argue that if 'The Prince' is a text worth > including in the Communist University Course, so should Robert Greene's 48 > Laws of Power. > Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! > ------------------------------ > *From: * Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> > *Sender: * [email protected] > *Date: *Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:22:13 +0200 > *To: *YCLSA EOM Forum<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: * [email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Robert Greene 's 48 Laws of Power. > > > I don't think that Klaas Nono Mabunda is really fitting in with this > group. > > This latest post of his is just ugly. > > If it is the kind of thing that is relished within the ANC Youth League in > Limpopo, then I think that these comrades should be prevailed upon to keep > such things to themselves, and not spread them around. Robert Greene may > share their creed, but not ours. > > What do other comrades think? > > VC > > > > > On 11 February 2013 16:10, Klaas Nono Mabunda <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Robert Greene 's 48 Laws of Power. >> >> 1.Never outshine the master. >> >> 2.Never put too much trust in friends; learn how to use enemies. >> >> 3.Conceal your intentions. >> >> 4.Always say less than necessary. >> >> 5.So Much Depends on Reputation – Guard it with your Life. >> >> 6.Court attention at all costs. >> >> 7.Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit. >> >> 8.Make other people come to you; use bait if necessary. >> >> 9.Win through your actions, never through argument. >> >> 10.Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky. >> >> 11.Learn to keep people dependent on you. >> >> 12.Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim. >> >> 13.When asking for help, appeal to people's self-interests, never to >> their mercy or gratitude. >> >> 14.Pose as a friend, work as a spy. >> >> 15.Crush your enemy totally. >> >> 16. Use absence to increase respect and honor. >> >> 17.Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability. >> >> 18.Do not build fortresses to protect yourself. Isolation is dangerous. >> >> 19.Know who you're dealing with; do not offend the wrong person. >> >> 20.Do not commit to anyone. >> >> 21.Play a sucker to catch a sucker: play dumber than your mark. >> >> 22.Use the surrender tactic: transform weakness into power. >> >> 23.Concentrate your forces. >> >> 24.Play the perfect courtier. >> >> 25.Re-create yourself. >> >> 26.Keep your hands clean. >> >> 27.Play on people's need to believe to create a cultlike following. >> >> 28.Enter action with boldness. >> >> 29.Plan all the way to the end. >> >> 30.Make your accomplishments seem effortless. >> >> 31.Control the options: get others to play with the cards you deal. >> >> 32.Play to people's fantasies. >> >> 33.Discover each man's thumbscrew. >> >> 34.Be royal in your fashion: act like a king to be treated like one. >> >> 35.Master the art of timing. >> >> 36.Disdain things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best revenge. >> >> 37.Create compelling spectacles. >> >> 38.Think as you like but behave like others. >> >> 39.Stir up waters to catch fish. >> >> 40.Despise the free lunch. >> >> 41.Avoid stepping into a great man's shoes. >> >> 42.Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter. >> >> 43.Work on the hearts and minds of others. >> >> 44.Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect. >> >> 45.Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at once. >> >> 46.Never appear perfect. >> >> 47.Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop. >> >> 48.Assume formlessness >> >> >> >> . >> . >> Klaas Nono Mabunda >> ANCYL Limpopo Provincial Spokesperson >> 0827304331 >> 0794304331 >> 0867182705 (fax) >> [email protected] >> [email protected] >> >> -- >> -- >> You are subscribed. 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