Mara macom,this one ya mbeki and sunset clause ? On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Mduduzi Herman Vilakazi <[email protected]> wrote:
> What is left or communist about Cronin's response? To be honest, Croni > diked and dived the letter from Thabo Mbeki. > > He did not dismiss any of the assertions Mbeki made. He gave us new > information which in earnest does not oppose what Thabo eraised in his > letter. Let me clarify: > > 1. Thabo Mbeki wrote that there were open discussions in the NEC. Cronin > in his letter fod not say anything that suggests debates were stiffled in > the ANC NEC. > > 2. Thabo Mbeki wrote that Jeremy Cronin discussed matters of the NEC with > Dr. Helena Sheehsn and subsequently apologised. Croning confirmed that he > was ill-disciplined and apologised. > > 3. Mbeki wrote that he does not find himself aloof and stiffling debates. > Cronin tells us that because Mbeki was senior, he had already started > discussions eith the apartheid government and should have briefed congress. > Because he did not brief congress therefore he was aloof. Heh. (Exile > information was very secret). > > 4. Cronin told us that he is very junior to TM such that he met him in > 1989 when he was a delegate and TM was a senior member chairing the Party > Congress held in Cuba. To me Jeremy expected to know everything that > senior leaders were doing in exile. It sounds like he was a spy of some > sort. What was he (very junior) going to do with confidential party > information? > > 5. Cronin in his interview on channel 404 (SABC NEWS) confirms that his > views were defeated in the ANC NEC. When were debates stiffled by Thabo? He > did not tell us how was he, the Party and Cosatu were suppressed to raise > views. > > To me Cronin's response was not a response to the letter of Thabo but a > letter providing new allegations of Thabo's aloofness etc. We are yet to > get the truth as to how debates were stiffled in the NEC of the ANC and How > Vosatu and SACP were shut down during Mbeki's era. > > Cronin has the capacity to crarify us. But his response was parralel to > the matters as hand. > > On 20 Jan 2016 14:04, "'Meshack Mdlalose' via YCLSA Discussion Forum" < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Cde Jeremy is one of the best intellectual the communist party has > produced > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Wed, 1/20/16, Mafika Damane Mndebele <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Former president Thabo Mbeki still > doesn't get it - Umsebenzi Online, Volume 15, No. 1, 20 January 2016 > > To: "yclsa-eom-forum" <[email protected]> > > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2016, 11:49 AM > > > > Powerful and > > we'll balanced response > > On 20 Jan 2016 10:51, > > "Alex MOHUBETSWANE Mashilo" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > Umsebenzi > > Online Volume 15, No. 1, 20 January 2016In > > this Issue:Former president > > Thabo Mbeki still doesn’t get it: Cde Jeremy > > Cronin’s response to Thabo Mbeki – the first and the > > only ANC President to declare his vote was a secret when it > > was no longer about campaigning for him. > > Red > > AlertFormer President > > Thabo Mbeki still doesn’t get > > itThe more he > > obsessively denies having an intolerant and grudge-bearing > > streak, the more he displays those very > > characteristics By > > Cde Jeremy CroninFormer president > > Thabo Mbeki still doesn’t get it. The more he obsessively > > denies having an intolerant and grudge-bearing streak, the > > more he displays those very characteristics. That’s a > > pity.I have never, I > > still don’t, harbour any personal animosity towards him. > > In fact, I am more puzzled than angered by his latest > > missive in which I feature centrally (“When your position > > can’t be sustained, create a scare-crow – the menace of > > post-apartheid SA”). In the political > > underground of the 1970s and perhaps more into the mid-1980s > > I was an admirer of a faraway Thabo Mbeki whose voice I > > would hear occasionally on Radio Freedom. He was a leading > > exiled ANC spokesperson and I was proud to be a foot-soldier > > back in South Africa in a movement that could produce such > > an evidently lucid political intellectual. My first direct > > encounter with him in London in 1987 was, however, a > > personal disappointment. He was distinctly hostile towards > > me. I couldn’t understand why. I subsequently attributed > > this to the fact that I was then closely associated with Joe > > Slovo. Unbeknown to me at the time, Mbeki had fallen out > > with Slovo for reasons which Slovo never disclosed to me. I > > have heard allegations from others, but it would be unfair > > to Mbeki now to air those on the basis of > > hearsay.In April 1989 I > > was a delegate from Lusaka to the SACP’s 7th > > National Congress held in Cuba. Mbeki was then a senior > > Political Bureau member of the SACP. He was tasked with > > chairing three days of congress, which he did quite > > brilliantly. In many long-winded, subsequent meetings > > chaired less well by others, I have often fondly remembered > > Mbeki’s chairing skills. However, it was at that congress > > that I learned something else about Mbeki and his management > > of meetings. The SACP > > programme that emerged from that congress, buoyed by the > > rolling waves of mass struggle at home, while not ruling out > > negotiations, was distinctly insurrectionary in character. > > I was one of those arguing for this perspective. During one > > of the breaks, the puzzled Cuban observers at congress > > approached some of us. “Is your comrade Mbeki not briefing > > you?” In the evenings, Mbeki had apparently been informing > > Cuban colleagues in detail about the secret negotiations > > process he was leading with the apartheid regime. He told > > the Cubans, but there was not even a hint of this from Mbeki > > our chairperson through three-days of discussion within the > > sessions of the SACP congress itself. He allowed us to > > wander on our merry insurrectionary > > way.This was a > > pattern of aloofness that was often to recur. It was Mbeki > > and not Slovo who, in the midst of the CODESA negotiations, > > secretly pushed the idea of sunset clauses. But it was Slovo > > who had the courage to open up the proposal for what became > > a heated but eventually useful debate within the ANC and > > alliance. In 2006 and 2007, as tensions between Mbeki and > > then ANC eputy President Jacob Zuma palpably deepened, and > > Zuma faced the prospect of criminal charges, Mbeki failed to > > open up these challenges facing the ANC for a collective > > political discussion within the NEC. Instead, there was all > > manner of background manoeuvres involving factions of the > > state apparatus. In 2002 I was to > > be a minor target in all of this manoeuvring. In April 2001 > > and then again in January 2002 I had given two lengthy > > video-taped interviews to the Irish academic, Dr Helena > > Sheehan. A leading left academic, Sheehan had been a member > > of the Irish Communist Party and active in the > > anti-apartheid movement. Like many others she was deeply > > disappointed with the trajectory of the ANC in government > > after 1994. She posed a range of critical and challenging > > questions. Why had the ANC-led government adopted > > neo-liberal macro-economic policies? Why the tragic AIDS > > denialism? Why did the ANC-led government turn a blind eye > > to violence directed against the democratic opposition in > > Zimbabwe? In particular, she wanted to know what those of us > > in the SACP were doing about these matters. These were fair > > questions and I found the opportunity a useful space to > > reflect critically and self-critically on the trajectory of > > post-1994 developments.I soon forgot > > about the interviews and assumed that Sheehan was using them > > as background for her own academic research. She did however > > post transcripts of the interviews on her own relatively > > obscure website which (since I always find reading > > transcripts rather tedious) I failed to check on myself. I > > was subsequently told years later by someone then serving in > > the intelligence services that it was they who tracked them > > down, briefed the presidency, and kept them up their sleeves > > for an appropriate moment. The appropriate > > moment arrived months later. One Sunday in July 2002, out of > > the blue and without any forewarning from the journalists > > involved, I found myself making headline, front-page news in > > the Sunday Times. The Sunday in question was clearly not > > accidental. It was in the week that the SACP’s > > 11th National Congress was to be held. In the > > following days some of the rougher ideological bouncers in > > the ANC NEC attacked me personally in the media. I was > > called a “white messiah”, a snake in the grass whose > > head should be crushed, I was (interestingly) a Trotskyist. > > Mbeki himself was silent, but he never then, or to my > > knowledge subsequently, called to order those who were > > unleashed in this way.I am not > > recalling all of this now to evoke sympathy. It wasn’t a > > pleasant time for me, of course, but I have a pretty thick > > skin. I enjoy and engage in robust debate, and I hold to the > > adage that if, as a politician, you can’t stand the heat > > you shouldn’t be in the kitchen. If all of this was an > > attempt to undermine my standing within the SACP, it > > backfired. SACP delegates to the Congress that week clearly > > appreciated the critical matters I was reported to have > > raised in the interviews about macro-economic policy, about > > AIDS denialism, about Zimbabwe policy, and above all about > > attempts from the Mbeki-circle to marginalise the SACP and > > COSATU.In the midst of > > all of this I finally bothered to read the transcripts for > > myself. I stood by and still stand by the substantive points > > that I was making in the interviews. In fact, they were no > > different from countless media articles I had written in the > > latter 1990s and early 2000s and ever since. However, on > > reading the transcripts I realized that I had sometimes > > spoken too casually, occasionally in a gossipy way about who > > had said what in closed meetings of the NEC, for instance. > > Apart from a breach of the confidentiality rule, several of > > the more flippant personal characterisations detracted from > > the substantive perspectives I was trying to advance. Of > > course, those in intelligence and their masters who had > > uncovered the transcripts had made no attempt to contact me > > so that I could request Sheehan to remove these from her > > site. The concern was not to protect ANC confidentiality and > > to limit any damage but to humiliate me. > > In the days > > following the SACP congress I wrote a letter to the ANC > > officials via Kgalema Motlanthe, then the Secretary General > > of the ANC, apologising for these mistakes. In a subsequent > > one-on-one, follow-up meeting with Motlanthe, he explicitly > > indicated that “Mbeki is still not satisfied”. > > Motlanthe’s only substantial criticism of the actual > > content of the interviews was that in warning of the dangers > > of incumbency (with which he agreed), it was unwise to > > characterise the tendencies specifically as > > “Zanufication”. The point could be made, he said, > > without referring to any one particular national liberation > > movement. I am sure Motlanthe was > > right.The attempt to > > create havoc in the SACP Congress having back-fired, the > > next opportunity to deal with me came with the August 2002 > > ANC NEC meeting. Lest I be retrospectively accused of > > breaking the confidentiality rule, I won’t say who said > > what, except to recall that one more sympathetic comrade, > > who clearly felt the need to join the chorus nonetheless, > > accused me of being a follower of Gramsci. I was happy with > > that. For nearly a full-day and a half the NEC discussed the > > Sheehan interviews, very little substantive criticism was > > levelled with the thrust being that, along with some other > > SACP and COSATU comrades, I was part of a dark conspiracy. > > At the end of the discussion I apologised for giving the > > interviews in a way that breached NEC confidentiality. I > > stand by that apology, and I stand by the substantive > > content of what I said in the course of the > > interviews.It was not the > > first or last time in the Mbeki years that I was singled out > > in the ANC NEC for what appeared to be an orchestrated > > attack. And I was certainly not the only one. The most > > egregious case, as others have recalled in some detail, > > happened some years later, when a retired Nelson Mandela > > attended an NEC meeting and was subjected to a carefully > > choreographed wave upon wave of insults from the usual > > suspects. Mandela had dared to publicly question government > > AIDS denialism at the time. The top table, with Mbeki among > > them, said nothing but allowed the disgraceful drubbing to > > continue. What’s the > > point of recalling all of this now? In responding in this > > way to Thabo Mbeki I am all too aware of the danger of > > perpetuating an unwanted distraction. As South Africans we > > are facing major crises – searing unemployment, poverty, > > inequality, persisting global economic turmoil, a drought, > > and more. Too much public commentary and too much of the > > energies of those of us in politics get focused on > > demonising (and sometimes eulogising) personalities, on the > > comings and goings of game-of-thrones, palace politics, and > > on appealing to tweet length attention > > spans.President Mbeki > > was not the devil incarnate. But he was also centrally > > responsible for a tragic AIDS denialism (unfortunately, in > > the coming weeks, I suspect we will have another Mbeki > > letter denying the denialism). But while personalities with > > their strengths and flaws matter, we also need to situate, > > in a particular historical context, Mbeki’s managerial > > aloofness and the accompanying tendency to want to erase > > anything that got in its way (an AIDS pandemic, trade > > unionists, communists). When the ANC > > achieved democratic state power in the mid-1990s, > > progressive policy alternatives were in varying degrees of > > crisis. The Soviet bloc had imploded spectacularly. Ruling > > national liberation movements, not least in southern Africa, > > were stagnating partly as a result of internal weaknesses > > and largely as a result of horrific apartheid > > destabilisation. The social democratic tradition was a pale > > and rather cynical shadow of its former self. Neo-liberalism > > appeared to be the only show in town. Thabo Mbeki bought > > into it, and it bought into him. There was an affinity in > > temperament. Shock therapy was the recipe. Out of the blue, > > zap the economy with undebated, written in stone, macro > > policy. What’s the point of policy debate when all the > > answers are pre-given and managerial in character? All the > > old isms (as someone put it) had now become wasms. Ideology > > was dead, history had ended. This was the > > ambience in which the Mbeki persona flourished, at least for > > a time. We are now living in a somewhat different world and > > national context. The global capitalist crisis that began in > > 2008, and which has not disappeared but whose epicentre > > shifts, has punctured the myth of rote unilateral responses > > to recession, or unemployment, or global inequality. The > > hottest decade in recorded history is telling us that the > > neo-liberal mantra of endless compound growth is > > unsustainable. This is a time that requires thoughtful > > policy debate, and a respect for heterodoxy, not endless > > attempts at disciplinary entrapment of those with whom one > > differs. I hope that I have learned from my 2002 experience > > that it is important to respect the organisational integrity > > of the formations of which one is a member. I hope that I > > have never forgotten that this does not mean suppressing > > difference or undervaluing constructive debate or remaining > > silent in the face of wrong. #TMstillDoesn’tGetIt > > · > > Cde Jeremy Cronin > > is SACP 1st Deputy General Secretary and ANC > > National Executive Committee Member until Mangaung, > > 53rd National Conference held in December 2012. > > Umsebenzi Online > > is an online voice of the South African working > > class > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > You are subscribed. 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