On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 09:23 -0700, Khem Raj wrote: > > On 6/1/21 9:13 AM, Luca Boccassi wrote: > > On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 07:58 -0700, Khem Raj wrote: > > > On 5/31/21 3:40 PM, Paul Eggleton wrote: > > > > Hi folks > > > > > > > > Upstream in the systemd project, a proposal has been made to add a > > > > special > > > > section to output ELF binaries to record soft runtime dependencies, so > > > > that > > > > they could be read and utilised by distribution build systems such as > > > > ours > > > > (they would be translated into RRECOMMENDS in our case). At the moment > > > > that > > > > doesn't seem to have generated a huge amount of interest in the > > > > traditional > > > > distro space, but would it be interesting for us? > > > > > > > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/17416 > > > > > > > > For clarity, we (Microsoft) will volunteer to do the integration > > > > assuming the > > > > above pull request gets reopened and merged, which is more likely if we > > > > express our interest. > > > > > > Finding dlopen dependencies is a neat idea, but it has to be accepted > > > cross distro, and also applications have to manually declare it in code > > > if I understand systemd's patch correctly. This will be hard to > > > accomplish as you can see changes are spread across apps from distro > > > point of view. Perhaps there is a smarter way of detecting adding them > > > in ELF spec itself and then have tools like linker help implement this > > > and also possibly collect the information or guide the users to achieve > > > this would be helpful. > > > > Yes ideally ELF shared objects/the linker/the loader would support weak > > symbols (like dylib on OSX). Unfortunately they do not, and it seems > > there's no interest to add it becasue there's no concrete use case that > > shows it's useful. But that cannot happen until there's some support > > for it. Chicken and egg... > > right and thats why I will be reluctant to go too far at distro level > unless there is general interest in wider communities as it can make us > an island. > > > There have been lots of theoretical discussions about pros and cons, > > and my hope was that if at least one distro could find it useful, and > > could show that it is in practice useful and the theoretical issues are > > not that problematic and could be solved, others would follow suit. > > you could tool it as a packageconfig for systemd alone and run with it > and see how it pans out. > > > So leaving aside other distros, is this something that would concretely > > benefit the Yocto project for handling the systemd recipe? There are > > currently 12 dlopen()-based optional dependencies in systemd, and the > > number grows with each release. > > we could certainly try that, provided systemd upstream is supportive of it.
Yeah, I was thinking of starting from the systemd recipe only. Given the project has to add support for it, a distro-wide rollout wouldn't make much sense anyway. -- Kind regards, Luca Boccassi
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