> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:yocto-
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Stewart, David C
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:23 AM
> To: Rifenbark, Scott M; Bill Traynor; Richard Purdie
> Cc: [email protected]; Paul Eggleton; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey
> Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
> detail
>
>
>
> On 6/20/13 8:23 AM, "Rifenbark, Scott M" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: [email protected] [mailto:yocto-
> >>[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Traynor
> >>Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:12 AM
> >>To: Richard Purdie
> >>Cc: [email protected]; Paul Eggleton; Osier-mixon, Jeffrey
> >>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
> >>detail
> >>
> >>On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Richard Purdie
> >><[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 2013-06-20 at 09:49 -0400, Bruce Ashfield wrote:
> >>>> On 13-06-20 04:40 AM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> >>>> > Hi,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Recently, Paul, Ross, Richard and I had a video conference
> >>>> > meeting
> >>where we had some initial discussion on how to satisfy YOCTO #2808
> >>(https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2808), which calls
> >>for an illustration showing source and destination directories during
> >>a build using YP. This bug originated from a discussion Dave Stewart
> >>and I had a while back around an idea of a more detailed "flow
> >>diagram" that would go into greater detail than the now famous and
> >>ubiquitous "The Yocto Project Development Environment" illustration,
> >>which appears in the YP Quick Start
> >>(http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.4/yocto-project-
> >>qs/yocto-project-qs.html) and has been used in many other places and
> >>in many other forms (some quite elaborate).
> >>>> >
> >>>> > We can't really create a completely accurate, all-encompassing
> >>illustration that breaks apart the entire build process. It is not a
> >>static thing and it is quite complicated inside the BitBake process.
> >>We can, however, show where metadata comes from, how it is provided,
> >>what it defines, where and how source files are found, what processes
> >>occur, what output is produced, and where it ends up. We can also
> >>provide some sort of idea of how key BitBake and environment variables
> >>affect things along the way. The idea here is to dig deeper into this
> >>conceptual figure and root out the details to a level that would be
> >>useful to the user but not impossible to maintain or develop. This
> >>type of information can be communicated through a mix of several
> >>illustrations with supporting text.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > This first meeting started with some detailed discussion of the
> >>configuration inputs for a typical YP build but soon migrated to
> >>discussing the bigger picture and possible ways to provide more
> >>information. It became obvious we were not going to dig the solution
> >>and all the needed information out in one short meeting. Consequently,
> >>I am sending out this email to help open up some discussion on the
> >>issue and to also solicit information for some basic blocks of
information.
>
> I would recommend that we don't over-engineer this thing if we can avoid
it.
> Remember the goal: People have told me that they are confused about
> which directories are "active" in the build process, i.e. Where does stuff
> come from and where does it go?
> My advice would be to think of bitbake as a black box with inputs and
> outputs.
> I know that any directory could be *potentially* an input or output (why
else
> would it be there?) But I'm hoping we can up level a little.
>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Two things are needed at this point: 1) a presentation solution
> >>for this new and more detailed information, and 2) a starting point on
> >>some of the information itself.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > PRESENTATION SOLUTION
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Here are some thoughts on how to present this information. There
> >>>> are disadvantages and advantages to each of these methods of which
> >>>> I will not list. I would like to see what people think about them:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > * Manual - Create a section in the "Technical Details" Chapter
> >>>> > of
> >>>> the YP Reference Manual that holds this information. The section
> >>>> would be pretty much self-contained and would consist of several
> >>>> illustrations that would stem from an overall figure that is
> >>>> similar to the figure we now have in the YP Quick Start. However,
> >>>> we would use a drill-down strategy that would progressively reveal
> >>>> more detail through subsequent figures. This method is similar to
> >>>> how hardware devices used to be documented where functional
> blocks
> >>>> would be connected and described in one area and then subsequent
> >>>> areas would elaborate more deeply on a particular block. Linking
> >>>> within the manual could connect up the various functional blocks
> >>>> (inputs, outputs, and tasks) that comprise the overall flow.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > * Manual / Website Mix - Devise a mix between the YP Reference
> >>>> Manual and some pages in the YP Website that provide the
> information.
> >>>> Create a section in the "Technical details" Chapter of the YP
> >>>> Reference Manual that covers this information at a high level. For
> >>>> example, the overall flow of the system with its "big-block" inputs
> >>>> and outputs and tasks could be discussed at some length. Links in
> >>the
> >>>> text could go to the YP website where more detail would be revealed.
> >>>> This strategy effectively splits the content into "overview" and
> >>>> "details" between the manual and website, respectively.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > * Website - With this strategy, everything is pretty much in the
> >>>> > YP
> >>>> website. This area would exist in a stand-alone fashion. However,
> >>>> you could link to the website from within the existing YP
> >>>> documentation set from existing areas that deal with the build
> >>>> process. Several exit points from within the manual set already
> >>>> exist. We would obviously add a primary one as well that would
> >>likely
> >>>> originate from the YP Reference Manual's "Technical Details" Chapter.
> >>>
> >>> I'm wondering if a hybrid is possible here. Can we for example embed
> >>> image maps into the docbook so that if you hover over areas of the
> >>> image, you can then have links to the different sections?
> >>
> >>FWIW, docbook supports image maps via the mediaobject tag but they are
> >>somewhat limited in their usefulness.
> >>
> >>http://docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/mediaobject.html
> >>http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/Imagemaps.html
> >>
> >>Scott, you may run into trouble when converting the docs between doc
> >>types, in particular with scaling of images.
> >
> >I will do some playing around with image maps and see what comes up.
> >It would be nice to see if we could make some "hot-spots" within
> >Illustrations.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> > SOLICITATION FOR INFORMATION
> >>>> >
> >>>> > We can get started now on this by starting to define details for
> >>>> some obvious points or large areas of the flow. What would be nice
> >>to
> >>>> get would be some graphical breakdowns of these areas of concern:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > * User-defined layers
> >>>> > * YP provided layers
> >>>> > * User configuration
> >>>> > * Machine Configuration
> >>>> > * Policy Configuration
> >>>> > * Patches
> >>>> > * YP provided recipes
> >>>> > * User provided source code
> >>>> > * YP provided source code
> >>>> > * SCMs
> >>>> > * Generated images
> >>>> > * Generated SDKs/toolchains
> >>>> > * Package Output
> >>>> > * Source fetching process
> >>>> > * Patch application process
> >>>> > * Configuration process (fragments, etc.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Just so I'm clear .. are you looking for graphical breakdowns to be
> >>>> created and sent, or information offered so graphical breakdowns
> >>>> can be created ?
> >
> >Bruce - any kind of information in any form is useful. If you need to
> >hack up a drawing to get a point across... do so. Or, if you can send
> >textual information that is good too.
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> The reason I ask, is that if there's any interest in the
> >>>> linux-yocto (for lack of a better term) flow being described
> >>>> graphically, I'm happy to offer up information, but my graphical
> >>>> skills are limited to what you find in a typical hackers bag of
> >>>> ticks :)
> >>>
> >>> I suggested that Scott try and accumulate information for each topic
> >>> like the following:
> >>>
> >>> Fetcher:
> >>>
> >>> Code Areas: Bitbake Fetch Module (bitbake/lib/bb/fetch2, called from
> >>> classes/base.bbclass)
> >>> Tasks Covered: do_fetch/do_unpack
> >>> Key Variables: SRC_URI, checksums etc
> >>>
> >>> Generated images:
> >>>
> >>> Code Areas: classes/image*.bbclass classes/rootfs*.bbclass Tasks
> >>> Covered: do_rootfs Key Variables: PACKAGE_INSTALL
> >>>
> >>> along with a description about what the function
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> Bruce
> >>>>
> >>>> > * Key variable use and effects
> >>>> > * User-initiated commands along the way
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Much of this list is directly from our existing "The Yocto
> >>>> > Project
> >>> Development Environment" illustration.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Thanks,
> >>>> > Scott R.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Scott Rifenbark
> >>>> > Intel Corporation
> >>>> > Yocto Project Documentation
> >>>> > 503.712.2702
> >>>> > 503.341.0418 (cell)
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > yocto mailing list
> >>>> > [email protected]
> >>>> > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>> al block does and when its used. The above would then link into the
> >>> class reference, the variable glossary and so on. So its less about
> >>> graphics and more about giving Scott the information to create a
> >>> kind
> >>of
> >>> details index of some of these parts of the system like an expanded
> >>> table of contents.
> >>>
> >>> I've suggested a good start would be picking a few areas (like the
> >>> above) and trying to create the info and maybe see what kind of
> >>diagram
> >>> would present itself from that. If successful, it could then be
> >>expanded
> >>> to each area. I'd certainly hope that linux-yocto would be one area
> >>> covered.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Richard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> yocto mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>yocto mailing list
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> >_______________________________________________
> >yocto mailing list
> >[email protected]
> >https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
If it is okay to jump in here, the keep it simple approach might be better.
Maybe walk through how a single package (hello world or other) is fetched,
expanded, packaged, placed in the image, etc. and show where everything goes
through the bitbake process.
Regards,
Sean Liming
Annabooks
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