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Hi, this forwarded post refers to the immediately preceding post. I have also noted to the writer that I believe that the 'popular' site uporn also runs on Catalyst. I really wouldn't know, but it was mentioned on the Catalyst list or on the IRC group. Anne Begin forwarded message: Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:44:32 -0400 From: Chris Prather <ch...@prather.org> To: Fred Moyer <f...@redhotpenguin.com> Cc: PM Groups <pm_gro...@pm.org> Subject: Re: [pm_groups] Whatever happened to Perl? On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Fred Moyer <f...@redhotpenguin.com> wrote: > This article really deserves a read to help enlighten the author: > > http://www.infoworld.com/t/languages-and-standards/whatever-happened-perl-012 Having just spent two solid days last week talking to anybody who wandered past about Modern Perl, there is really nothing I think we can say to this author. His view point, despite knowing about Moose and presumably Catalyst, is that you can't write modern applications in Perl without taking a serious performance hit or writing unmaintainable code. From a purely objective standpoint he's wrong. We know he's wrong, because we do this all the time. The problem is that he is not objective. This article is a pure opinion piece used to troll for responses that re-enforce the frame that his argument even begins to hold merit. The best thing we can do as a community is not to break out the enlightenment torches, which I admit was my first reaction until the registration-wall stopped me and made me come to my senses. The best thing we can do as a community is to emphatically point to the cases where we *do* have successes. Omni Hotels makes $76 million annually in a Catalyst application. The BBC uses Catalyst in league with several other architectures in their iPlayer platform. Magazines.com, ThinkGeek.com, they are pure or nearly-pure Perl application stacks. What *other* success stories can we point to like these? We need to be talking about how Perl is solving our problems today and adds value to our businesses. Also we need to talk about how Perl solves problems other languages haven't thought to solve yet. Moose's Roles are a feature that exists in only a half dozen or so languages: Perl5 (Moose), Perl6, Scala, Smalltalk, Lisp and possibly some more esoteric reference implementations. Of these languages which has the largest adoption in business? I'd make a serious bet that it is Perl5. Roles add some serious value if you have a large object oriented code base. I saw on twitter someone mentioning that ActiveRecord was just starting to get features that DBIx::Class has had for years. While I'm sure that some of these languages have features we can only dream of (I know the Japanese Perl Mongers are stealing quite a bit from Ruby), and Perl has some warts we can all point to (our native concurrency models all suck right now IMO), we need to look at our successful spots and write about them. We need to talk about how our tool chain is established. How many other languages have a CPAN? How many have three different clients that can automatically chase and install dependencies? How many have automatic smoke testing of every module in their comprehensive archive? How many smoke test against a half dozen platforms, and at least three major releases of the core language? How many people have had their projects saved by being able to talk to the CPAN author and get XYZ feature implemented/fixed/documented so that they can roll it out into production on time? These are the stories we need to tell. We need to point to articles like this one as not just being *wrong*, but being so horribly uniformed that they appear as obviously clueless as they actually are. Right this was a bit more ranty than I intended, but I'm still recovering from two days manning the TPF booth at OSCON. I've seen a lot of mis-informed or poorly informed people in the last few days, so I'm still a bit sensitive to it. Carry on with whatever you were doing. -Chris Tamarou LLC -- Tamarou.com -- Request pm.org Technical Support via supp...@pm.org pm_groups mailing list pm_gro...@pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups _______________________________________________ Za-pm mailing list Zafirstname.lastname@example.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/za-pm posts also archived on Mail Archive http://email@example.com/