HI everyone, Thanks to Chris for pointing out this group to me, I didn't even realise it existed before this morning! :-S Sorry.

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The ZBLL is dependent on all 4 LL edges being correctly oriented once you finish the F2L. As you get further on in your solution, edge control gets harder and harder, simply because you have less freedom. Recently I have been experimenting with Orienting edges right at the beginning of the solve. Orienting edges and then solving the cross is easy enough to do, but I think you would only reap any benefit from this if you could orient edges AND solve the cross SIMULTANEOUSLY. I suggested to Chris that with a lot of practice, this might be in the same league as solving the XCross, which Chris himself admits he can regularly see now given the 15 seconds inspection. I must note that this idea was not fundamentally mine, it was discussing this possibility with Ron at WC2005 and also hearing about it sometime in the past that caused me to try and work at it. Really, it's the first time I heard about it and had enough cubing experience to know exactly what it means for the rest of the solve ;) Of course, most of you guys are a lot sharper than me, and you would probably realise even now, that if you could have 12correctly oriented edges after the cross is solved, you have 2 advantages. Firstly, you can blaze through the F2L, the number of cases is halved? (intuition tells me this but like most things where intuition is involved ive probably missed a simple counter-example...). But you can speed through it using only R U and L (and D of course, for empty slots), and of course F2 and B2 if necessary. You can even use F and B if it's easier, as long as the algorithm is 2-generator and you replace the cross edge after solving the pair it won't affect the edges! Secondly, once you've solved the F2L, without any work at all (and ensuring you haven't changed edge orientation during F2L), you end up with a ZBLL case by default. I realise a lot of people in this group are learning ZBF2L, and this would render those 300 or so algs redundant. I don't want to "urinate on your bonfire" by any means, I still think it is worth learning since my original idea of orienting edges is still unproved to work, but this is why I am posting about it! But you have to work far less hard to orient edges during the F2L, so you could go at it absolutely full speed, and with the ease of the algorithms perhaps even solve it in 5-6 seconds. However I would like you to consider this idea. So you would proceed: Orient edges + Solve Cross together F2L ZBLL I am currently learning the ZBLL element which is common to both this idea and the full ZB system, so I am not in too far that I can't get out yet ;) I would appreciate some feedback :) DanH :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/