>
>There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
>      1. Re: Cleansing my soul
>           From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>      2. Re: Digest Number 1312
>           From: John Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1         
>   Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:30:29 +0000
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: Cleansing my soul
>
>I'm currently at 328 pounds and 5'7" tall. Before gatric bypass surgery, I 
>weighed 450lbs.
>
>--
>Darren W. Lyle
>Boston, Massachusetts
>The House of Four Cats
>
>http://www.thecorporation.com/
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2         
>   Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:40:14 -0800 (PST)
>   From: John Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 1312
>
>
>
>> 
>> Message: 1         
>>    Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:16:26 -0000
>>    From: "yogavajra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: All that stuff...
>> 
>> I was talking to a friend recently who practices in the Tibetan 
>> tradition. We were talking about Phowa - or the method of transfering 
>> conciousness at the time of death. I was curious what the Zen 
>> traditions take would be on this subject.
>> 
>
>Um, transfer your consciousness to what? Or whom?
>
>> I mean the practice is full of rich visualisations (not what we're 
>> used to in zen) yet if a legitimate practice surely crucial?
>> 
>Whether or not it is legit is irrelavent. A Zen teacher would say this is just 
>more
>Samsara.
>
>
>> Message: 3         
>>    Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:51:48 -0500
>>    From: "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Cleansing my soul
>> 
>> From: "John Davis" <> Try being big (5'8", 315lbs) and disabled (walk with
>> cane) in a region where employers seek physical and mental perfection in
>> their emplyees.
>> >
>> What area do you mean? I was at 417 and am 5'9" living in Miami. Down to 327
>> now.
>> 
>Well, I'm loosing too. Down now to 275 from 315 since July.
>Where do I mean? I mean Appalachian Virginia. The little tail end that was not 
>able to
>seceed into West Virginia during the Civil War. Eugenics is still practiced 
>here,
>despite our former Governor's formal and official apology for all the years 
>that
>Eugenics was the law of the land down he-yah. They still regard the "disabled" 
>as
>looked down upon by God, like the Puritans and other Pre-Darwin Darwinists: 
>survival of
>the fittest was not a new idea in the 1800's when Darwin sailed on the HMS 
>Beagle, it
>was couched in religeous terms...Terms now used by the Baptists despite that 
>religion
>being started in what is now Rhode Island to escape the strictures of 
>Puritanism.
>
>Weird, eh?
>
>
>> Al
>> http://health.discovery.com/tvlistings/a2z.jsp the 627 pound woman gets
>> sliced and diced until she is about 250lbs.
>> 
>> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/WeightControlBodybuilding/?yguid=247242099
>> Join the Weight Control list for a non-denominational discussion of
>> Bodybuilding
>> and Weightlifting!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> Message: 4         
>>    Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 05:28:44 -0000
>>    From: "jenniferkuszynski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: Should we thank God?
>> 
>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Today I ran over a large rock that someone had either laid onto the 
>> road or
>> > it had dropped off someone's truck. I thought it looked like a 
>> white paper
>> > bag (maybe I need glasses?). What a shock to hit that rock. 
>> Thankfully it
>> > seems like nothing happened to the car's transmission, axle, oil 
>> pan, motor,
>> > etc.
>> > 
>> > My daughter said "Thank God nothing happened to us." I thought "If 
>> G-d
>> > wanted to be so helpful, why do only half a favor and leave the 
>> rock in the
>> > middle of the road? Why not just do the complete miracle and have 
>> the rock
>> > bounce to the curb when it fell off the truck?"
>> > 
>> > So I wonder, was G-d helping us? Should we be thankful we were not 
>> injured?
>> > Was the rock in the middle of the road a sign that G-d could care 
>> less?
>> > 
>> > A couple of days ago an 11 year-old girl was run over by a car as 
>> she
>> > crossed the street to go to school (at the school crossing, during 
>> the
>> > slow-speed time). She was holding her older sister's hand when she 
>> was
>> > killed. The car only hit one girl. Should the surviving sister 
>> thank God for
>> > such a wonderful miracle? Why didn't God save them both?
>> >
>> 
>> I thought about this post today as I did a U-turn on the road two 
>> houses down from my own (forgot my coffee) and ran over a large chunk 
>> of metal, blowing out my front tire and causing a big delay in the 
>> trip I was about to undertake (while I exchanged the tire with my 
>> full-size spare in the trunk - and got my coffee)...
>> 
>> And I realized I'm perfectly comfortable with the randomness of this 
>> event. All it was was a chunk of metal in the road. Nothing more. 
>> Just metal. It wasn't put there by some God to cause a one hour delay 
>> in my trip, or remind myself that I'm a mechanically-inclined woman 
>> and can change my own tire without help. It wasn't some sign I 
>> shouldn't go on my trip. It was just a chunk of metal. 
>> 
>> And it's still just a chunk of 4-inch metal imbedded in my tire. 
>> Maybe I'll keep it after the mechanics pry it out of my tire tomorrow 
>> when I get my two new tires installed as a reminder of the randomness 
>> of it all. 
>> 
>> I'll be spending my Sunday morning with the mechanics.
>> 
>> Jennifer
>> 
>You have some good points there, and point directly to one of the major 
>failures of
>institutionalized religion. These beliefs in God doing or not doing something 
>goes back
>to early man. Ok, I know this is controversal, but...Religion developed out of 
>man's
>need to rationalize, explain, or justify random occurances, acts of nature and 
>other
>arbitrary happenings. Since we are still doing this today, then how can we say 
>that we
>have evolved?
>
>One of my favorite sceens involving this is the episode of The West Wing where 
>they
>have the funeral for Mrs. Landingham, the fictional President's personal 
>assistant. She
>was killed driving back to the White House after picking up a brand new car 
>from a
>dealership, by a drunk driver. Martin Sheen as Pres. Bartlett, after the 
>funeral cusses
>out God in fluant Latin for taking his oldest and dearest friend. Now, this is 
>followed
>by a sceen in the Oval Office where in frustration and disorientation calls 
>out for
>"Mrs. Landingham" (the only name ever used for her), as he often did when 
>frustrated
>and needed sorting out...Her ghost comes into the room and they have a short
>conversation in which she says he should not be mad at God, because "God 
>doesn't make
>cars crash". A theologian would say that the "random occurances" you list above
>happened because we have "free will".  Some Eastern/New Age thinkers would say 
>it was
>their "karma" (it was the karma of the rock to fall from the truck?). I the 
>best
>coloquialism someone who practices Zen would say is "sh*t happens".  Well, 
>that is what
>I would say.
>
>Best,
>John
>
>
>Ki is extending,
>John Davis
>
>"Let us have a Universal Mind
>that loves and protects all creation 
>and helps all things grow and develop. 
>To unify mind and body and become One with the Universe 
>is the ultimate purpose of our study."
>                                 -- Koichi Tohei Sensei
>
>"Masakatsu - Righteous victory, proper attitude 
>Agatsu - Victory over self 
>Katsuhayahi - Victory over speed of light, doing things so perfectly that time 
>is no longer a factor"
>                                 -- Akira Tohei Sensei, no relation to  the 
> above. This from an interview in www.aikidoonline.com/ .
>
>"Beware the Medical-Industrial Complex!"
>                                -- John Davis
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
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