Good Morning Bill,

Now we have a common ground, "Zen is the life force and wisdom of the universe."

Therefore, it can not be described, defined, talked, communicated by words, nor can it be comprehend by mind.  It can only be connected to it with our Buddha nature. 

Zen is the one, which menifest the entire universe both present and past.  Every being, every occurance is its menifestation. As trees grow, as we live and die, this life force is always there.  If we can be part of it, be one with it, then we instantly will know all menifestations of every moment is impermanent and relative.

As we sit and focusing at the present moment, are we focusing on the relativity?  Or are we trying to connect to the ONE? 

No self, no mind is only the first stage of "Purification", when we are connected, we reach the second stage of "Wisdom", then when we accomplish the third stage of "Consummation", we become Boddhisatva.  Only when we are enlightened, then we are Buddha.

No mind, so self is on the way to Buddha, but not quite there yet. It is a long struggle, but much more pleasant than just sitting and sitting and sitting.  *smile*

Let me know if you're ready to venture.

JMJM is "Jue Miao Jing Ming" for short.  It is my Dharma name given to me by my Master.  I use it when I talk about Dharma. I am grateful of having such honor as well as the patience and understanding of this discussion group in reading my post.


Bill Smart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[Donald...] The only "form that is real" is the life force of Zen. That is
the carrier, the energy, the wave, the enabler, the under taker of all
messages, perceptions, menifestation,..... relative to the moment.

I can live with that.

[Donald...] State of "No self" is no different that of "false form". It is
to help to block the mind, the head, the brain, the thinking,� the logic,
the opinion, etc. so to reach emptiness or Nirvana.� After that enables the
possibility of connecting or in sync with Zen, Buddha Nature or Inner Divine
or enlightenment.

I agree with the first part of the above statement, but not with the last.
My objection is still with the word (words again!) 'connection'. Connection
implies there are two or more separate entities. When you reach the state
you (and I) described as 'no-mind' you realize that you ARE Buddha, that you
ARE constantly manifesting Buddha Nature and in fact that you always have.
No connection is required.