On Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:18 PM Donald Hwong wrote:
>Good morning Bill,
>Thank you for your post. I love your style, often filled with Firepower,
very close to >RinZai. It's Fun.
>Dependent Origination is the essence of Thai Buddhism and an important one
as well >to Vedanta. Even Thik Nahn Han's Interbeing may be Originated from
>What DavidK and You have pointed out that they occur together and
inter-dependent >are absolutely true in concept. There is just a big
different in Chinese and English. The >word in Chinese is milder. That
said, however, I trust we both agree that English and >Chinese are both
Agreed. Translations are certainly subject to misunderstandings and
My previous response was to issue a general challenge the use of the term
'Dependent Origination' which seem to me to be 180 degrees from the
traditional zen approach which de-emphasizes complex concepts and big words
- in fact any words. . 'Dependent Origination' is a very complex concept
which is evident just from the fact that you, DaveK and Dharmastudent
discussed it at length for several postings. My challenge was, does the
concept of 'Dependent Origination' come from YOU? From YOUR EXPERIENCE? Or
is it only a phrase you've read in the sutras? And if you say it does come
from your experience, why are you using someone else's words to express it,
and why do you have such a difficult time expressing it in plain,
>My Flash of that moment Originated directly from the Ego of Others, that
the word >"Dependent" may be offensive to their Ego.
I liked your 'Flash of that moment...'. That, for my money anyway, is
closer to zen then repeating words from a sutra. And I personally don't
worry about offending the ego of others (or my own for that matter). That's
their problem - opportunity actually. Perhaps if they get their ego
offended enough times they'll start to think about just what their ego is,
why is it offended, where it comes from, etc... That would be a very good
result - and just might also give them a real experience with the concept of
>Then at the same time, I also have
>learned that "Dharma Talk" communicates better if not translated into
I was really taken aback about the statement above. As you can tell I'm a
big fan of common terms. What is your objection or reluctance to using
common terms? What have you 'learned' by trying to use common terms in a
>The sole purpose of sutra is to wake us up, so that we can practice. It is
not my >purpose to edit, or change what is being posted or regarded as
>I stated at the end of my post, that notion of mine is just an independent
notion >completely to itself, and relative only to that moment. There is no
position being >taken. Please do not worry for me.
>From our school, I am constant reminded, "Attach to any word is an
How about attachments to sutras? Or attachments to words in sutras?
(Translated words!) What does you school have to say about that?
>Good to hear from you.
I'm glad to see you continue to post, but I would like to see more postings
from other people, and in general more discussion on this forum. If you and
Dharmastudents and the rest of your comrades continue to dominate the forum
we'll have to change the name from ZEN Forum to the VIPASSANA Forum!
>We are 103F degrees in LA. How is Thailand?
That's hot! About 40C? I saw on the news this morning that Baghdad is 49C!
Thailand's fine. It's about 35C. The monsoons are starting. I'm in Delhi,
India right now and probably will be for the next month or so. Monsoons are
starting here and I don't even want to know what the temperature is outside
(35 to 40C). The temperature in my hotel room is about 22C.
>Bill Smart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between dependent and linked, related or
>>Things that are linked, related or connected can exist independently of
>>Things that are dependent cannot.
>>Which is it?
>>Do you know? Or are your explanations dependent upon your knowledge of
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