Hi John
Yes my guess would be that Dharma Wheels and other internal body
enregetics are of Taoist influence. This is not necessarily bad if
handled well. I personally feel that much of Zen especially its
Japanese and Korean varieties have lost touch with the energy arts
that were part of the context of Chan pracitice in China. My teacher
Sheng yen teaches a series of body movements that we practice durning
retreats and in daliy pracitce. However these arts are only aids to
meditation. They enable meditation not by producing specific energy
states--cosmic orbits, spinning wheels etc--but by energizing,
relaxing the body and unifying body and mind. This condition supports
meditation. They are not ends in themselves and should not become
distractions. Tell me more about yuor body energy pracitces.
Here's a question: Where is your practice when your Dharma Wheels fall
off????
In the Dharma
Alan

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, donald hwong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
> 
> Thank you for your detailed response.
> 
> What is IRL?
> 
> Donald - I rather be just Donald.  
> 
> PS. JMJM bears heavy responsibility for carrying the karma of other
sentient beings. Besides, it is very difficult to maintain an
"integrated session" between a teacher and students.  Meaning, teacher
is often tempted to make a statement.  If not careful, this statement
often results in the creation of dualistic division between him and
his students.
> 
> 
> 
> John Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:                                 
Donald H courteously replied:
>  
>  > I am just sharing as is and not emphasizing nor categorizing.
>  
>  I understand.
>  
>  > The key point is her "new" experience, while she is not expecting
and not following >
>  any kind of methodology.
>  
>  This makes sense, and is a common side-effect of opening of the
"dharma eye".
>  
>  > I don't know the term "samsarah" please help. 
>  
>  Sanskrit for delusion or illusion, I'm not sure which...But in
Japanese Zen (and
>  Korean) defeating it is the goal of meditation. When you defeat
samsarah, you reach
>  kensho or enlightenment...Or so I recall from "The Three Pillars of
Zen"...
>  
>  > As to the sensing and sharing the discomfort of others are
experienced by most of 
>  > our diligent practitioners.
>  
>  Yes...Also a sign of spiritual growth or some such...
>  
>  > Based on her description, there seems no "frequent or constant
glimpse". I believe 
>  > that she was just overwhelmed. And she is much content in sitting
long hours now.
>  
>  I'll bet. I sure was when this happened to me...No, not constant
and not even
>  frequent...In my case, just on occasion and quite "out of the
blue". My point is all of
>  the teachers I've encountered both IRL and in books or online urge
students not to
>  cling to these...The object is not to create more psychics, but to
train the mind to
>  see beyond what we normally see. Or so they say (I'm just
paraphraising). :)
>  
>  > Our "Dharma Wheel" is similar to the chakra, but may not be
excactly the same. I 
>  > suspect that we had strong Daoist influence. Like FengShui and
Accupuncture. I have >
>  not had the chance to dig any further. But they work great for our
practitioners and >
>  myself, especially practiced together with the 36 Motion Chan from
BodhiDharma.
>  
>  I think I get it. I was thinking about "prayer wheels" like the
Tibetans use.
>  
>  > I suspect there are a lot of differences yet to be discovered.
Chinese Chan were 
>  > destroyed in Communist China and has a very short history in the
US. Our school has >
>  not begin to teach in the US yet. So far most of our practitioners
are from Taiwan 
>  > and learned there.
>  
>  Ok, I understand...You are re-starting a tradition....
>  
>  > And yes, I am honored to be ordained by a Chinese LinChi Chan
Master. I don't 
>  > consider myself any different. I am learning like everyone else.
With this Dharma 
>  > honor, I actually have to practice and study a little harder.
Meaning, my finger 
>  > works only some of the time, if it does work at all. :-D
>  
>  I hear ya. I've been offline a lot practicing IRL...As to
rebuilding the Lin Chi
>  school, I'm sure there are works here in the US that would serve
you, that you can't
>  get on paper in China but could get via the net...And I'm sure
there are more than
>  enough Zen Rebels here in the West that can get them for you. :)
>  
>  > I use my Dharma name of JMJM only for paying deep respect to
Dharma I was taught and
>  > transmit the Dharma blessing to others.
>  
>  This is good...
>  
>  > Let me know if you have any questions or comments. 
>  
>  I'm sure that there are more than a few waiting to ask away. :)
>  
>  Namaste,
>  
>  Gassho,
>  John - who has no dharma name...
>  
>  Ki is extending,
>  John Davis
>  
>  "Let us have a Universal Mind
>  that loves and protects all creation 
>  and helps all things grow and develop. 
>  To unify mind and body and become One with the Universe 
>  is the ultimate purpose of our study."
>                                   -- Koichi Tohei Sensei
>  
>  "Masakatsu - Righteous victory, proper attitude 
>  Agatsu - Victory over self 
>  Katsuhayahi - Victory over speed of light, doing things so
perfectly that time is no longer a factor"
>                                   -- Akira Tohei Sensei, no relation
to  the above. This from an interview in www.aikidoonline.com/ .
>  
>  "Beware the Medical-Industrial Complex!"
>                                  -- John Davis
>  Visit my webstore:
>  http://eismembers.com/member/DavisDryGoodsandEmporium/
>  
>  __________________________________________________
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>  
>      
>                        
> 
>               
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