Hi Tailor, I like what you are discussing.   It is very interesting. 

I am not sure I understand your third paragraph about "through the goal... 
missing by..."  Can you elaborate a little more?


Tailor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:                               It is true, 
very true, about the formulated and formless practices mentioned.

But there is a difference. Saying "there is no good or evil, right or wrong" by 
an enlightened teacher is the realization of the true reality. Copying by 
saying the same by a random guy can be just being philosophically correct. At 
least he knows this at the mind, not the heart.

Like what you said, driven by the life force itself. It is so true, but it can 
be self-serving too. When I feel laziness, or feel like getting loaded, I am 
excused by the fact that I am driven by the life force. And before 
enlightenment, you are sure you are driven by the universal life force, or it's 
your ego?

Like the "living in the present" teaching. It can be self-serving too. Do 
whatever my life force (or ego?) tells me to do, and be present with it. To me, 
from what I learned from my Master, the key is, to attain the goal (living in 
the present) is not through the goal itself (constantly remind  or examine 
yourself to be in the present, in which you will always be tenth of second 
missing of present).

"Buddha says one word, sentient beings interpret differently, possibly miles 
away." This is inevitable. I am not judging anyone, I just feel sad.

donald hwong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
                          Hi Tailor,

So true, Well put.

As we begin our practice with formulated methods, we need a lot of 
determination, perseverance and commitment.

After we entered the formula-less practice, then we can surpass these 
adjectives of human  invention, and be driven by life force itself.

Al is the moderator of this forum.  I am sure he is asking this question for 
those who were not familiar with Buddhism. :-)


Tailor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
                          Buddhism is not pessimism or demotivating, thinking 
so is a misunderstanding. It may  seem so because many ancient and modern monks 
and nuns seem to live a reclusive life without need to strive in this busy 
world. It might seem so because of the teachings of Middle Way, which "seem" to 
discourage anything "active" such as determination and perseverance that you 
mentioned. But this is not true.

In different scenario and environment the practice is different. Modern people, 
laymen have to work for a living. A true Buddhist works hard, because he knows 
that's his responsibility to  be fulfilled. Buddhism is not a dead dogma, it is 
alive, can be applied to everyday life, including your work.

As you might agree, on the path to enlightenment, or even to maintain 
consistent daily practice, requires determination. To become Buddha one must 
excel oneself, to surpass one's weaknesses or bad habits. And from this 
perspective, those good qualities that you mentioned are  essential to 
Buddhism. "Desire" for enlightenment is different from desire for sex and  
money that make one's life unbalanced. Don't fall for the "philosophically 
correct" interpretation of Buddhism, which may tell you that all those good 
qualities are also extremes to be abandoned in the goal of Middle Way.

                          From: "donald hwong" <> Contentment is not 
satisfaction and not joy.
  Contentment is a state of want-nothing. >>if we could put our best foot
 forward to let go our
 >  reaction to the effects of  all existing forms, not be affected by it,
 >  just accept as is, we end our suffering.>>
 If we want nothing, then why will we want to put our best foot forward? I
 think if Buddhism had become the predominant religion of the world, we would
 all be living in huts and caves right now.
 That might not be a  bad thing, but to some degree buddhism is demotivating
 and defuses desire, ambition, determination, perseverence, and many other
 qualities that are essential for success in society. Is Buddhism for people
 who are vegetables, or is it just a tool to reduce stress?

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