Al, You're asking very difficult questions.
I'll pass for now on the one about 'What is the point of living a good life if it means nothing and has no value?'. I'll only say now that although I don't worry about a point or a meaning to living, I wouldn't say life has no value. I'd like to instead go back a few posts to your question about JUST THIS being 'Zombie Zen'. I only answered that I thought that you were selling JUST THIS short, and that it had a lot more richness than you thought. After mulling this over for a while I remembered the 10 Oxherding Pictures and Verses, and direct you to them. You can Google 'zen oxherding' and you'll get a lot of links. (Make sure you get the 10 version and not the 8 version, at least to synch up with this posting.) In case you're not familar with these, they depict the journey to enlightenment in 10 stages or pictures, each with its own verse. (I just want to make sure no one really thinks there are 10 actual stages to enlightenment - these are just someone's examples of milestones along the way.) The first 6 depict the search for and the eventual realization of enlightenment, which is represented by the ox. The 7th depicts a very advanced stage where enlightenment is forgotten. The 8th stage depicts the 'void' stage that I think you are referring to and worrying about. You don't want to get stuck there. But take heart! There are 2 more stages. The 9th stage depicts the worldly phenomenen coming back into focus again, but this time a new focus through the prism of the enlighenment experience. The 10th and final stage depcits an enlightened being fully integrated back into society - driking wine, eating fish, buying and selling in the market. This is the end product of zen. These stages are also represented in a familar saying and song lyrics: First there is a mountain, (oxhearding 1-7) Then there is no mountian, (oxherding 8-9) Then there is. (oxherding 10) Usually on this forum I only post about no mountian, but when all is integrated fully, then there is. So Al, you see there is something to look forward to after the 'void', if you need that assurance to go forward. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Fitness63" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: cid830 >if you detach yourself from your Ego through these > 'mind-numbing' practices you will be a better person, more in-tune with the > world around you and enabling you to be an agent of change or positive > influence to others. > > > I would like that, but Bill, Mike, Edgar, etc., state it is just an illusion > which is trancended when you reach the JUST THIS stage. > > I realize that I can be a bit combative about some issues, so I apologize > for that. I think a while back I hit this wall we are discussing now and it > was never clarified for me and I gave up on zen and just chalked it up as > another bogus path that I had followed. > > I am enjoying this discussion because I realize that it is something that > has been bothering me for a long time. Where is the connection to God, > Universal, Dharma, ancestors, etc. What is the point of living a good life > if it means nothing and has no value? Why make sacrifices if we are just > bits of meaningless nothing? > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/