Great.  I think we finally understand each other.  Yes, beyond "just this" into impermanent form of things, we need to focus deeper into the essence of things - chi - which connects everything together.  Do give it a try.  JM

Bill Smart wrote:

JMJM,

I'm not arguing with you. I don't really care what names we use such
as Chan/zen, Chi/JUST THIS, po-TAY-to/po-TAH-to. I only care that when
we use these terms we know what they mean, or at leat know whether
we're referring to the same thing or not.

>From you postings I don't think JMJM's Chan is the same thing as
Bill!'s Zen Buddhism, and especially not Bill!'s zen. I also don't
think JMJM's Chi is the same as Bill!'s JUST THIS!

>From what I've gleaned so far I think the major difference (and maybe
the only difference) between Chan and Zen Buddhism is Chan's focus on
Chi. I think the major difference between Chan and zen is
spiritualism, which inlcudes things like Chi.

I do enjoy our posting exchanges, even when I'm disapointed.

I do like your title: JMJM, Roshi - American Zen Association.

Do you like mine? Bill!

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