JMJM,

I screwed up.  'Satori' is a full awakening or enlightenment.  As far 
as I'm concerned there is nothing more to realize after satori.  As 
far as being 'buddha', we are all buddha right now.  I've never heard 
anyone talk about 'merit' in relationship to satori or 
enlightenment.  Maybe you think about that in the sense of karma and 
the building up of 'good' karma.  This sounds more like the Christian 
concept of 'good works'.

After satori, at least in my opinion, karma is seen as maya and is no 
longer applicable.

'Kensho' is what I was thinking about when I wrote the posting 
below.  Just substitute 'kensho' for 'satori' and you'll see what I 
meant to say...I've corrected the posting below...

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> JMJM,
> 
> 'Kensho' is a term used in Japanese Zen Buddhism to describe the 
> first awakening.  It is thought to come suddenly (even though there 
> might have been a lot of preparation), and is thought to be 
temporary 
> (does not last a long time - maybe just minutes with a strong 
memory 
> or sense of what it was like lasting for days and months).  There 
is 
> thought to be a difference in 'kensho' and 'enlightenment' only in 
> degree of awareness and durability (how long it lasts) of the 
> experience.  Fundamentally awakening is awakening.  There is no 
> difference.
> 
> In Japanese Zen Buddhism teachings, after kensho, would come a 
> regimine of either continued zazen (shikantaza) or koan study - or 
> both.  Both of these would be done under the tutelege of a zen 
roshi 
> who would direct the students teaching during dokusans (private 
> interviews).  Dokusans are usually daily, but depending on the 
number 
> of students could be more or less than that.  During this period 
the 
> roshi helps the student refine his/her awakening experience so that 
> it can be gradually incorporated into the everyday activies of the 
> student.
> 
> This is the way I was taught in a Japanese Zen Buddhist zendo many 
> years ago.  All of this does not now represent my current 
> understanding of 'enlightenment' (Just THIS!).
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
> <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, What I meant was, Edgar mentioned enlightenment comes after 
> Satori.  
> > Is there anything else we could to do to realize that?  How about 
> to be 
> > Buddha? Do you talk about any of these?  Do you talk about 
merit?  
> Or 
> > just slap on your face?  Thanks, Donald  ?
> > 
> > Bill Smart wrote:
> > >
> > > After satori some lose the ability to write complete sentences 
and
> > > respond to everything in loosely connected phrases...
> > >
> > > Just kidding! ;>)
> > >
> > > Siminotes, Welcome! I haven't seen you on the forum before. I 
hope
> > > you will continue to participate. I enjoy your posts. I 
especially
> > > enjoyed one a few posts ago in which you posted:
> > >
> > > "Self arises and dissapears with interaction."
> > >
> > > "The Self is a by product, not a permanent thing."
> > >
> > > I liked this description a lot....Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, 
> > > "siminotes" <dscochrain@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > peace and serenity...
> > > >
> > > > and nothing special.....living our lives and learning to be 
more
> > > > skillful.
> > > >
> > > > no difference, satori no satori....
> > > >
> > > > just more aware...
> > > >
> > > > nothing special....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
> 覺妙精明
> > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > >
> > > > > What does your teaching say, if any, what to do after 
Satori?
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, all teaching by itself is maya. But the teacher 
may
> > > > have
> > > > > said something....
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > JM
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>



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