Edgar,

You are right.  I corrected this post in a subsequent post.  I 
wrote 'satori' but meant 'kensho'.

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> 
> I don't think satori is a term used just for a first awakening  
> implying there may be others. There is some disagreement, but in  
> almost all of the Zen enlightenment stories satori is described as 
if  
> it is a permanent and irreversible transition. Frankly I doubt 
that  
> is true in all cases. If so each would still be a satori.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 18, 2008, at 3:32 PM, Bill Smart wrote:
> 
> > JMJM,
> >
> > 'Satori' is a term used in Japanese Zen Buddhism to describe the
> > first awakening. It is thought to come suddenly (even though there
> > might have been a lot of preparation), and is thought to be 
temporary
> > (does not last a long time - maybe just minutes with a strong 
memory
> > or sense of what it was like lasting for days and months). There 
is
> > thought to be a difference in 'satori' and 'enlightenment' only in
> > degree of awareness and durability (how long it lasts) of the
> > experience. Fundamentally awakening is awakening. There is no
> > difference.
> >
> > In Japanese Zen Buddhism teachings, after satori, would come a
> > regimine of either continued zazen (shikantaza) or koan study - or
> > both. Both of these would be done under the tutelege of a zen 
roshi
> > who would direct the students teaching during dokusans (private
> > interviews). Dokusans are usually daily, but depending on the 
number
> > of students could be more or less than that. During this period 
the
> > roshi helps the student refine his/her awakening experience so 
that
> > it can be gradually incorporated into the everyday activies of the
> > student.
> >
> > This is the way I was taught in a Japanese Zen Buddhist zendo many
> > years ago. All of this does not now represent my current
> > understanding of 'enlightenment' (Just THIS!).
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
覺妙精明
> > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, What I meant was, Edgar mentioned enlightenment comes after
> > Satori.
> > > Is there anything else we could to do to realize that? How about
> > to be
> > > Buddha? Do you talk about any of these? Do you talk about merit?
> > Or
> > > just slap on your face? Thanks, Donald ?
> > >
> > > Bill Smart wrote:
> > > >
> > > > After satori some lose the ability to write complete 
sentences and
> > > > respond to everything in loosely connected phrases...
> > > >
> > > > Just kidding! ;>)
> > > >
> > > > Siminotes, Welcome! I haven't seen you on the forum before. I 
hope
> > > > you will continue to participate. I enjoy your posts. I 
especially
> > > > enjoyed one a few posts ago in which you posted:
> > > >
> > > > "Self arises and dissapears with interaction."
> > > >
> > > > "The Self is a by product, not a permanent thing."
> > > >
> > > > I liked this description a lot....Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "siminotes" <dscochrain@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > peace and serenity...
> > > > >
> > > > > and nothing special.....living our lives and learning to be 
more
> > > > > skillful.
> > > > >
> > > > > no difference, satori no satori....
> > > > >
> > > > > just more aware...
> > > > >
> > > > > nothing special....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming -
> > 覺妙精明
> > > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What does your teaching say, if any, what to do after 
Satori?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, all teaching by itself is maya. But the 
teacher may
> > > > > have
> > > > > > said something....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > JM
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>



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