Hi Edgar,

I'd be really interested in an example of how, "..remembering to look at 
reality" works and how you do this. I'm not being smug here, it's just that I 
find if I don't sit for a while I inevitably backslide into samsara. Of course, 
I can 'look at reality' off the mat, but zazen to me is like a recharging of 
the batteries and is the place I can deepen my practice. I just wonder that if 
people who have had a glimpse and stop sitting are missing out by not deepening 
their experience in zazen. Mike.  

----- Original Message ----
From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 19 September, 2008 21:48:56
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori


I certainly agree that zazen can have the benefits that you state, having done 
quite a bit of sitting myself. However my point is that there are other ways 
which in my case at least are now more effective in keeping me on the path. 
Basically just constantly remembering to look at reality....

Now please pardon me, I have to do my laundry! 


On Sep 19, 2008, at 2:19 AM, mike brown wrote:

Hi Edgar,

In terms of talking about what happens after satori, I like the title of the 
book 'After the Ecstasy - the Laundry' (forgot the author). To my mind, this 
does kind of imply the ordinariness of our true, natural state. I think that 
people here are getting to hung up about what satori is and once experienced is 
enlightenment forever. As you know, enlightenment is a moment to moment 
experience and one can slip from one ox-herding stage to another in an 
instance. I think this is the main difference between our way of thinking. I 
believe that Zen and the practice of zazen helps to keep a person mindful of 
their emotions day to day and moment to moment and so helps them recognise the 
desires and aversions that lead towards unhappiness. A person who has a 
spontaneous kensho or who loses their sense of self in a sporting 
activity/nature/ listening to music etc. will rarely achieve this a second time 
and will almost certainly never intergrate this into a daily
 practice designed to 'bring the ox home'. Mike.



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