JM,

I don't think of Zen action as adding up pluses or minuses as the term 'merit' suggests. That may be a useful idea in ordinary Buddhism, but Zen transcends the notion of good or bad.


Edgar



On Sep 30, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:

The volume/degree of "act out" or "flow through" is called
"merit"............ There is no merit by just sitting, no matter where..

Edgar Owen wrote:
>
> Hi Margie,
>
>
> Your words "when the dancer becomes the dance" or
>> "the poem writes itself." are spot on.
>
> To my mind there are two levels of Zen. The first is just
> consciousness and realization. The second is active Zen, which is to
> act in the world out of Zen directly. That requires becoming empty of
> self and just letting the flow of chi or tao act through one. That's
> my take on your words which are better than mine in expressing it.
>
> Best,
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:16 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
>
>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Margie,
>> >
>> > Welcome to the forum. My name is Mike and like you I had a
>> spontaneous break thru', but unlike you I was fortunate to pick up a >> book literally minutes after my experience (a book on kundalini as it
>> happens). Eventually I was led to Zen and so able to put words (as
>> such) to my experience. I have found that sitting has helped deepen
>> that initial experience, although not in the 'whizz, bang, wallop' way >> that the initial experience occured. It's helped by allowing the daily
>> internal chatter to dissapate so that that window of body and mind
>> just 'dropping away' (Dogen)opens a little longer. Mike.
>> >
>>
>> Hi Mike-
>>
>> Thanks for the welcome. And it's good to know that I'm not the only
>> one who has had a spontaneous Satori.
>>
>> If meditation works for you, that's wonderful! If it deepens your
>> experience, helps you turn off the internal dialog, and makes your
>> life better, then of course you should do it.
>>
>> But did you know that there is now evidence from neuro-biology (or is
>> it neuro-physics? I forget...) that the ability to "successfully"
>> meditate is a matter of wiring? Some people are literally wired for it >> and some are not. Some people physically (for lack of a better word)
>> cannot do it. The other evidence is that your body doesn't know the
>> difference. In other words 20 minutes of "successful" meditation and >> 20 minutes of sitting quietly with your eyes closed and "daydreaming"
>> have the same benefits as far as stress relief, cardio-vascular
>> health, etc.
>>
>> Long before the lightning Satori, when I was growing up in the 70's
>> transcendental meditation was all the rage. I tried and tried. I read >> books, I went to gurus, I was given secret mantras, I practiced alone,
>> I practiced in groups. All that ever happened to me as far as a
>> different state of consciousness is concerned was that I got so
>> relaxed I fell asleep. It has just never worked for me. The best way >> for me to turn off the internal dialog is to get really involved and >> engrossed in something...like "when the dancer becomes the dance" or
>> "the poem writes itself." I don't know if I'm making myself clear.
>>
>> Part of the reason I had kept quiet so long about my experience is
>> that I remembered my days when I was trying transcendental meditation
>> and all the talk about whether someone had had an "authentic"
>> experience, etc. I knew my experience was authentic and I didn't feel
>> any need to have it validated or approved of by anyone else. The
>> experience was plenty deep and has had a profound effect on my life.
>>
>> One of the things I like best about zen is the deep respect for
>> individuality, privacy, and the active principle of minding one's own
>> business. How can anyone make judgments about someone elses'
>> experience? How can I fault anyone for meditating? Not meditating?
>> I cannot know their experience.
>>
>> So to do zazen or not to do zazen? For me that is not the question.
>> The question is: Is whatever you are doing working for you, does it
>> resonate, does it feel right, does it make you stronger, help you
>> grow? If the answer is yes then I will support you in it with all I've >> got. If the answer is no, then I will try to help you find something >> that does work for you, but only if you want me to. To me, this is one
>> of the aspects of compassion that is a natural outgrowth of Satori.
>>
>> I hope I haven't botched it - words don't always serve well when it
>> comes to zen.
>>
>> Margie (roloro1557)
>>
>
>



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