Of course those 'masters' all have a vested interest in saying that since they run the monasteries where people do zazen. Anyway glad you agree with me.


On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:35 PM, mike brown wrote:

Hi Edgar,

Of course, I agree with you 100% that zen is not confined to sitting in zazen and then something to be forgotten while we get on with life (kinda surprised you would assume that from my posts). That's not my point. What I'm saying is that without a meditation it's easier to backslide into egoistic thinking than it is if you sit reasonably regularly. I would argue that the vast majority of masters from Zen say the same thing.

----- Original Message ----
From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 September, 2008 21:10:41
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori

Hi Mike,

See my response to Margie for more. Basically my point, like Osho's is that it is a big mistake to think that just sitting and then forgetting about zen in daily life is all that needs to be done or will work. Zen is mindfulness 24/7 in the daily world. That is true meditation. The notion that zazen is meditation and daily life isn't is the big mistake I'm trying to point out. Given that, if one treats daily life as a meditation there is no necessity to sit in zazen.

BTW many passages from the Zen writings (like Osho's) support my contention that Zen is not something to be found in meditation. Zen is not something to be found in a Zen monastery. Zen is not something to be 'transmitted' from a master. Zen is simply being in reality, whatever one is doing, wherever one may be.

BTW I do meditate from time to time both zazen and some other techniques. I'm not against it, I'm only against people thinking that's all it takes sort of like 'Christians' that think going to church once in a while is all it take to be a Christian.


On Sep 29, 2008, at 9:30 PM, mike brown wrote:

Hi Edgar,

How is this "more evidence" that sitting zazen in a monastry (or not) is a waste of time? I would argue that if Margie had already been sitting when this insight occured (or discovered a Zen centre soon afterwards) her experience might have been far deeper. In fact, but for the synchronistic event of finding the book on zen she might never have 'built' on the experience. People fail at university all the time, but we wouldn't say that studying at one is often a waste of time. Mike.

----- Original Message ----
From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] net>
Sent: Monday, 29 September, 2008 22:26:57
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori


Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting in a monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.


On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:

One way I can describe my experience of Satori is that it was a
complete obliteration of all the overlays on my consciousness:
language, thought, future, past, role (wife, mother, etc). Even my
body disappeared (female, sore left arm, whether I was dressed, etc).
All the overlays foisted on me by culture, other people and my own
ego-self just completely fell away in an instant. I didn't even know
I'd had Satori until years later. I knew something "big" or extremely unusual had happened to me, but I had no words for it. I've never even
discussed it until the last few years. But at the same time I never
forgot it...I don't mean I thought about it all the time - it was just
there quietly in the background.

After Satori the genie is out of the bottle, so to speak. One goes
back to "ordinary" life, even though one's life can never be
"ordinary" again. It's a paradigm shift. One goes back to "ordinary"
life with one's view of life radically and irrevocably changed.

After Satori???
I fixed breakfast.

Margie (roloro1557)

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