Edgar, Isn't that the ultimate goal? Isn't "directly experiencing what is real" enlightenment? So Zen = Enlightenment? IMHO Zen is the pathway to enlightenment.
The "window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to Zen" are the necessary training (i.e. meditation, concentration exercises) to release the illusion of Self. Maybe it's just a matter of definitions. But I still maintain that most individuals will need to train/practice in order to directly experience what is real. Thank You, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mike and Chris, > > In my view Zen is simply directly experiencing what is real. All else > is just window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to Zen, > but intrinsically irrelevant. > > Edgar > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/