Isn't that the ultimate goal? Isn't "directly experiencing 
what is real" enlightenment? So Zen = Enlightenment?  IMHO Zen is 
the pathway to enlightenment. 

The "window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to Zen" 
are the necessary training (i.e. meditation, concentration 
exercises) to release the illusion of Self. 

Maybe it's just a matter of definitions. But I still maintain that 
most individuals will need to train/practice in order to directly 
experience what is real.

Thank You,


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike and Chris,
> In my view Zen is simply directly experiencing what is real. All 
> is just window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to 
> but intrinsically irrelevant.
> Edgar


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