Hi Chris,

I agree whatever works, but given ordinary human nature it is very easy to get lost in particular disciplines (or lack of them) on the way. Better to just cut through the illusion and realize you are already there and always have been.


On Oct 3, 2008, at 5:21 PM, cid830 wrote:

Isn't that the ultimate goal? Isn't "directly experiencing
what is real" enlightenment? So Zen = Enlightenment? IMHO Zen is
the pathway to enlightenment.

The "window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to Zen"
are the necessary training (i.e. meditation, concentration
exercises) to release the illusion of Self.

Maybe it's just a matter of definitions. But I still maintain that
most individuals will need to train/practice in order to directly
experience what is real.

Thank You,


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike and Chris,
> In my view Zen is simply directly experiencing what is real. All
> is just window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to
> but intrinsically irrelevant.
> Edgar

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