Hi Chris, The Sixth Patriarch's school is called the school of instant 
enlightenment.  It is for people like Edgar.  The classmate of the Sixth 
Patriarch, Shen-Xiu found the school of gradual enlightenment in the 
north of China, where most of those like me belong.  :-)



cid830 wrote:
>
> Thank you, JMJM.
>
> That is exactly what I was looking for. I see lots of postings about
> how the teachings are meaningless and just a distraction from your
> experiencing here and now, but I want people to understand that you
> have spent years of training to get to this point. It is not just as
> easy as "opening your eyes" to see true reality. You must follow a
> path, you must work to free yourself from your ego and the illusions
> it brings. I'm glad to see to give props to the Buddha and the
> teachers before you.
>
> Thanks again, and please clarify if anything I said here is wrong.
>
> Chris
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Well Chris, I am not sure I understand your question. The way our
> > Teacher teaches is nothing but meditation for 15 years. Then he
> > correlates Buddhist sutras and Tao Te Ching to our experience. I
> was
> > taught by one of his students. Also nothing but meditation for 5-6
> > years, then gradually relate my experience to the sutra. Does
> this
> > answer your question? Our Teacher is alive but no longer teaches
> now.
> > We just follow his way. We are all at-home practitioners without
> robe or
> > title or rules, except a few of us has a Dharma Name. We are no
> body,
> > no one, nothing.
> >
> > We have a big thick linage book, if that is what you are looking
> for,
> > then we are 48th Lingji(Rinzai in Japanese). In our school
> however,
> > this does not mean much. Historically speaking, Buddha sent
> his "without
> > word" teaching to china through BodhiDharma. He is recognized as
> the
> > First Patriarch of Chan. When it reached the Third Patriarch, we
> can
> > already tell the Taoiest influence in his Xin-Xin Ming(shin-shin-
> ming).
> > That's why Osho said, Chan stripped away all the excess baggage of
> both
> > Buddhism and Taoism and kept its essence.
> >
> > My Teacher defines Chan as the "universal life force and wisdom."
> It is
> > the foundation of all existence.
> >
> > Bill is right, everything else is just "lipstick". :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > cid830 wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, JMJM, but doesn't your school rely heavily on the Buddha's
> > > teachings to come to this realization? Under whose influence do
> you
> > > connect to the universal life force? Who designed the principals
> > > that you follow?
> > >
> > > Thank You,
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Zen_Forum%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
> > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Right on, Brother Bill. Anything written down, spoken about are
> > > just
> > > > forms to describe a direct "connection" to the universal life
> > > force and
> > > > wisdom.
> > > >
> > > > As Edgar stated numerous times, "nothing else matters..."....
> > > When we
> > > > let go of our mind, we let go of our frame of reference. No more
> > > > capable of judgment, comparison, categorization. No more
> > > suffering....
> > > >
> > > > To lock in this synchronization, a chi based practice helps..
> > > >
> > > > _/\_
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > BillSmart@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris,
> > > > >
> > > > > In a recent post you wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >I do disagree with Bill's point that Zen has always
> > > > > >stood alone and that other beliefs have tried to
> > > > > >incorporate it, I believe it is the opposite, Zen
> > > > > >has been isolated from Zen Buddhism and incorporated
> > > > > >into other people's beliefs. Or something like that.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an important point to me so I'd like to try to clarify
> > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > > If zen is indeed a 'direct experience of reality', then the
> > > capability for
> > > > > that experience that has existed 'forever', or at least as
> long
> > > as
> > > > > sentient
> > > > > (self-aware) beings have existed. This experience certainly
> pre-
> > > dates
> > > > > Siddhartha Gautama Buddha. That is why I say 'zen' pre-dates
> > > Buddhism,
> > > > > Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc...
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't believe that 'other beliefs' (religions) have tried to
> > > INCORPORATE
> > > > > it (zen)'; I believe a direct experience of reality (zen) is
> the
> > > BASIS for
> > > > > all these other beliefs, and that the differences we see today
> > > are due to
> > > > > different culturally-based terms used to describe this
> > > experience, and
> > > > > lots
> > > > > and lots of extraneous add-ons.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example when I read the Bible I interpret accounts of
> > > directly
> > > > > communicating with God (like Moses) or with the Archangel
> > > Gabriel (like
> > > > > Mohammed), or the experiences Jesus had after fasting for 40
> > > days in the
> > > > > wilderness as equivalent to the Japanese Zen Buddhist
> > > term 'satori'. I
> > > > > believe these are accounts of people directly experiencing
> > > reality,
> > > > > and then
> > > > > trying to describe it in the best way they could. When Jesus
> > > says, 'I am
> > > > > the Way, the Truth and the Light; and no one can come to the
> > > Father but by
> > > > > me', to me he is saying 'I am not 'me' any longer. I am no
> > > longer just a
> > > > > man, I'm the way, the truth, the light. I am no longer under
> the
> > > > > delusion I
> > > > > have a self that is different and separate from other beings
> and
> > > other
> > > > > things. I am no longer under the delusion of duality. 'I'
> cease
> > > to exist.
> > > > > There is Only THIS. 'I' am my experience, nothing more and
> > > nothing less.
> > > > > And having this experience (direct experience of reality -
> zen)
> > > as I have,
> > > > > is the only way for you to 'come to the Father' (come home,
> > > return to the
> > > > > origin, realize your Buddha Nature, become enlightened).
> > > > >
> > > > > This is what I believe because I do believe most of the major
> > > > > religions were
> > > > > started with good intent, and since I don't believe in actual
> > > deities
> > > > > I can
> > > > > only assume the impetus for all of these is from the same
> > > source:
> > > > > 'God', or
> > > > > a direct experience of reality - or what I choose to call zen.
> > > > >
> > > > > All of this is just a comforting thought for me. It's not
> really
> > > important
> > > > > in the long run. It's just a way I've found to rationalize
> other
> > > beliefs
> > > > > without completely negating them.
> > > > >
> > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>  

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