Agreed Edgar!

I know I "wasted" much time and energy on counting breaths for 
months. Then switching to concentrating on the 'rising and falling' 
of the diaphram. Then 'in and out' with breath. Then working chakras. 
Then mantras. And different sitting positions and different hand 
positions. I now believe that either way, if I would have stuck to 
one discipline, the end result was have the same, and could have been 
realized much sooner.  

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I agree whatever works, but given ordinary human nature it is very  
> easy to get lost in particular disciplines (or lack of them) on 
the  
> way. Better to just cut through the illusion and realize you are  
> already there and always have been.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 3, 2008, at 5:21 PM, cid830 wrote:
> 
> > Edgar,
> > Isn't that the ultimate goal? Isn't "directly experiencing
> > what is real" enlightenment? So Zen = Enlightenment? IMHO Zen is
> > the pathway to enlightenment.
> >
> > The "window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to Zen"
> > are the necessary training (i.e. meditation, concentration
> > exercises) to release the illusion of Self.
> >
> > Maybe it's just a matter of definitions. But I still maintain that
> > most individuals will need to train/practice in order to directly
> > experience what is real.
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike and Chris,
> > >
> > > In my view Zen is simply directly experiencing what is real. All
> > else
> > > is just window dressing and fluff, useful perhaps on the way to
> > Zen,
> > > but intrinsically irrelevant.
> > >
> > > Edgar
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>



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