Hi Anthony,

Do you really believe that all things on earth are "dirty" and not worth 
thinking about? What about watching a sunset or listening to Bach (that one was 
for you, Jody)? Or a mother holding her newborn baby.? Or when a stranger risks 
his/her life to help another stranger? I would suggest waking up in the early 
morning and going into the country just to watch a small flower open it's 
petals to a new day and THEN tell me this planet/life is "dirty". If your way 
of thinking is what theists do then I'll proudly wear the label 'atheist'. 
Mike. 



----- Original Message ----
From: Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 6 October, 2008 7:57:38
Subject: Re: [Zen] Come back to "Aging and Zen"


Edgar,
 
I would like to send you an email after I die, but Mahakasyapa says it is 
unlikely you will receive one. If I am enjoying life in heaven, I would not 
care about the earth because all things there are dirty, not worth even 
thinking about. If I am suffering in hell, I will not be capable of sending a 
message, because the devil who tortures me will not allow it. In either case, 
you will be receive an email. Sorry.
 
Regards,
Anthony

--- On Mon, 6/10/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .net> wrote:

From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] net>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Come back to "Aging and Zen"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com
Date: Monday, 6 October, 2008, 6:45 AM


Anthony, 

I wouldn't worry about suffering after death. Just let go of worry suffering 
right now. In the very unlikely event you find you are still suffering after 
death then send me another email....
:-)

Edgar




On Oct 5, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:



Hi Edgar,
 
I can only appreciate and agree. As a zen master says, "an imaginery pain is 
more painful than a real one". But just in case, can we do something, less than 
becoming a Buddha, to avoid suffering after death? Or should we just ignore it 
as a foolish idea?
 
regards,
Anthony

--- On Sun, 5/10/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] . .net> wrote:

From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] net>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Come back to "Aging and Zen"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com
Date: Sunday, 5 October, 2008, 11:06 PM


JM and Anthony, 

If I can add just one more point. Most of Anthony's current 'suffering' seems 
to be from worrying about something which hasn't yet happened and may never 
happen to him. As JM points out, it is certainly not real here now.... This 
suffering from worrying about a nonexistent future simply needs to be let go 
of. Why magnify the very pain of dying you worry about by worrying about it 
when it hasn't even happened and may never happen? That's clinging to the very 
thing you wish to avoid....

Edgar





On Oct 5, 2008, at 10:44 AM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:

Hi Anthony,

This is an important question.

Bill and Edgar both have stated many times that only the present moment 
is real. A direct experience is the only thing matters. I am not sure 
either of them will continue to post regarding this issue. And I agree 
with them. 

Since you still "want" to know and "believe and hope" there got to be 
more than "just this". Perhaps I can answer in a traditional Chinese 
Buddhist way about end of life.

As you know, when Hui-Neng died, his body did not deteriorate. His body 
is still being preserved on an altar without refrigeration in Canton. 
Can this be interpreted that if any of us practice enough, we can die 
gracefully. Does this help?

My personal experience is, if we continue to meditate, we will 
eventually worry less, ask less questions and witness the fact that the 
present moment is the only thing real.

JM

Anthony Wu wrote:
>
> I would like to come back to Al's profound question. The thread he 
> started is getting long and branching out. Can you simply say 'this is 
> it?' How do you react to pain? A famous zen master Daisetsu Suzuki 
> went through a lot of suffering in his last days. I am scared to think 
> about that. If he cannot avoid suffering, how can I? How about you 
> all? Are you sure you will leave this world peacefully?
> 
> Regards,
> Anthony
>
> --- On *Sat, 4/10/08, Al /<actionheroes@ yahoo.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Al <actionheroes@ yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com
> Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM
>
> As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for
> me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you
> willing
> to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for
> you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms??
>
>
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