Anthony, My responses are embedded below: >That is what I expected to be your answer: there is no suffering >to save. How about starving African people, those who go through >tortures, political oppression, rape victims, bereaved family, >etc etc? Do we just stand by to laugh?
I'm not exactly sure what your question is: If your question is 'How should I, Anthony, help alleviate starvation, political oppression, and violent crimes among African people?', I would answer 'I don't really know'. That's a political problem and probably requires a political solution. But I would advise you to start by alleviating your own suffering by getting rid of your attachments. Then you could join (or start) a political group and work and attempt to enable the changes in Africa that you want to see. What are you going to do? >I expect your answer to be: teach those people to get rid of attachment >to the suffering. Right? If your question is 'How should I, Anthony, help African people alleviate their suffering which is due to attachments?', I would answer 'I don't really know'. That's a personal problem and probably requires a personal solution. But I would advise you to start by alleviating your own suffering by getting rid of your attachments. Then you could move to Africa and begin helping one person at a time. What are you going to do? ...Bill! --- On Tue, 14/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 14 October, 2008, 7:14 PM Anthony, 'Digression' is my middle name! See my responses embedded below: >A hammer hitting a toe occurs every day and everywhere in the world, >resulting in a lot suffering. How does zen address this problem? Pain is not what Buddhism means when it talks about suffering. Pain is pain. OUCH! Suffering, in the Buddhist sense, is the result of attachment - wanting things. It is this suffering that Buddhism seeks to end. Not pain. OUCH! (Of course if you were not ATTACHED (physically attached) to your toe, then hitting it wouldn't hurt, would it? But, if you were not attached to your toe, would it still be YOUR toe? Maybe you've come up with a new koan. Cool!) >Many zen masters still remember the origin of zen, which is >mahayana Buddhism has a root vow of Bodhisatva to save all >sentient beings in the world. I have trouble seeing that reconciled >with the non duality. If you see that all attachments and therefore suffering is illusory, then you have 'saved yourself' (Hinayana), and in doing so you have destroyed the dualism that separates 'you' from 'others' and have therefore already saved 'all sentient beings' (Mahayana), and doing this enables you to realize there were no sentient beings and no saving action that had to be done in the first place (Zen), and that there only ever was, is and will be Just THIS! (zen) >If causality is illusory, are there rules that govern human behavior, >such as karma, in place of God, so that man have to think twice, before >they commit evil deeds? My experience and opinion is that causality is illusory; so there are no rules that govern human behavior, no karma, and no God. If you think once, much less twice, you are already lost! ...Bill! ________________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! __________ NOD32 3520 (20081014) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/