Edgar;

If you open yourself in awareness to the flow of the Tao.  Your 
action is not automatic but in awareness.  Whatever you say to me 
there is a negative connotation in the word automatic.  

Mayka



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Mayka,
> 
> Action is automatic, though perhaps the word is not the best, in 
that  
> it is not directed by the details of the mind but flows 
automatically  
> from the center of being by just opening oneself to the flow of 
the  
> Tao through oneself. Awareness is not a contradiction to this, it 
is  
> an awareness of whatever is happening, automatic or not.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Mayka wrote:
> 
> > Hi Edgar again;
> >
> > I have just been reading through the posting just to see which 
were
> > the word or words that lead us both to misunderstanding. In my 
case
> > the word you used in your first post making the statement "...it's
> > great to do sometimes things automatically" was what called my
> > attention because the last thing that the practice of zen is
> > automatic. This statement was the root of our misunderstanding.
> > Then you have been writing and claryfying what you meant. What you
> > meant is something different as automatic. It's not the same being
> > aware as being automatic. Don't you think?
> >
> > Mayka
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Mayka" <flordeloto@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good morning Edgar;
> > >
> > > You're absolutely right the body is always doing many things 
all at
> > > once. The practice is to be aware about what is happening in the
> > > body and in the mind and also surroundings. Whether we achieve
> > this
> > > or not is a different matter. I have never say that this is an
> > easy
> > > practice. It can be boring and tedious. I only said that is the
> > > practice of the present moment in which the tool of breathing in
> > > awareness is used.
> > >
> > > Probably we both are trying to say the same but somehow we're
> > getting
> > > entangled with words. The web is not an easy medium to express 
zen.
> > >
> > > Mayka
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mayka,
> > > >
> > > > You are missing my point. One's body is always doing many many
> > > things
> > > > at once. One could not exist otherwise. Scores of muscles have
> > to
> > > > move together to make even the simplest motion. To speak 
tongue
> > > and
> > > > lips and breath must all move at the same time. No one ever is
> > > doing
> > > > just one thing. That is an illusion.
> > > >
> > > > Edgar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Mayka wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Edgar;
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe you that if at every moment you're doing 100 or 
1000
> > you
> > > > > may find difficult to concentrate in what you're doing!. The
> > whole
> > > > > point of the practice of the present moment is breathing in
> > > awarenes
> > > > > so that your head is in togetherness with your body and also
> > > aware of
> > > > > the activities you're doing. Very difficult to manage. I 
believe
> > > > > that. Tell me about it!!!. But that is the practice. If 
you're
> > > > > walking, you try no to chew you to start with. In fact the 
same
> > > > > practice put you off of chewing anything while you're 
walking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mayka
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> 
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mayka,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not completely true. At every moment we are doing 100s or
> > 1000s
> > > of
> > > > > > things. It is impossible to be focused on them all. There 
is
> > a
> > > big
> > > > > > difference between being awake and aware in the moment vs
> > > focusing
> > > > > on
> > > > > > everything that is happening in that moment which is
> > completely
> > > > > > impossible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is possible for the Zen person to walk and chew gum
> > > > > simultaneously!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Consider right now. I am mindful of what I am typing but 
not
> > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > movement of each finger on the keyboard. That is still 
Zen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Be mindful, and let whatever focus happen naturally. But
> > focus
> > > on
> > > > > > reality in the present moment rather than getting lost
> > focusing
> > > on
> > > > > > mind contents.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Edgar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Mayka wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Edgar;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good to hear from you again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If we do things automatically without being focused on
> > them,
> > > it
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > means that we're not living the present moment. Simple 
as
> > > that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mayka
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen 
<edgarowen@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sometimes it's great just to do things automatically
> > without
> > > > > being
> > > > > > > > focused on them, that allows one to be mindful of more
> > > relevant
> > > > > > > things.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Edgar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Nov 2, 2008, at 4:07 AM, <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jody,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >I think I understand that is the MOTIVATION that is
> > > > > important.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > a person
> > > > > > > > > >has a driving desire to be a Phd in a subject that
> > > interests
> > > > > > > them,
> > > > > > > > > then if
> > > > > > > > > >the person pursues the subject they are studying 
with
> > > > > > > curiousity
> > > > > > > > > and they
> > > > > > > > > >focus on what they are doing today then that is the
> > > objective
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > if they
> > > > > > > > > >are driven to crave the PhD in the future without
> > > thinking of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > path to
> > > > > > > > > >get there then that is where the problem is?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think your thoughts above are close, but 
obtaining a
> > > PhD is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > goal. LEARNING MORE ABOUT [whatever] is not a goal, 
it
> > is
> > > an
> > > > > > > > > activity. Now you could pursue the learning aspect 
by
> > many
> > > > > > > means,
> > > > > > > > > one of which would be enrolling in college and 
taking
> > > courses
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > might eventually lead to a PhD - BUT, the PhD is 
only
> > > > > incidental
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > the activity. It is not the activity itself.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also, what I think Buddha and Jesus both said were 
more
> > > along
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > lines of living in the present. Using the example
> > above,
> > > if
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > going to class every day and studying every night -
> > then
> > > you
> > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > pour yourself TOTALLY into each activity you are 
doing
> > IN
> > > THE
> > > > > > > > > PRESENT. You should wake up welcoming the new day, 
do
> > your
> > > > > > > morning
> > > > > > > > > exercises as best you can, take your shower and dry 
off
> > > with
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > your awareness, fix and eat your breakfast with
> > reverence
> > > and
> > > > > > > > > thanks, drive to class focusing all your attention 
on
> > the
> > > > > drive,
> > > > > > > > > attend class while focusing all your attention on 
the
> > > > > teacher's
> > > > > > > > > instructions, etc... You should NOT wake up and rush
> > > through
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > morning resenting the interruption of your sleep, 
shower
> > > > > quickly
> > > > > > > > > and eat your breakfast in a rush while trying to 
catch
> > the
> > > > > first
> > > > > > > 15
> > > > > > > > > mins of CNN, drive to class while thinking about 
your
> > > upcoming
> > > > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > or the cute girl/guy who sits next to you in class,
> > fidget
> > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > > > your class hoping it will end quickly so you and the
> > cute
> > > > > > > guy/girl
> > > > > > > > > sitting next to you could go to the beach or park.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is what I mean by living in the present, not
> > > dwelling on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > past or dreaming about the future.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>



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