Okay, lurking or not I couldn't resist this one. I especially want to respond since I think it also addresses the APPARENT ongoing diagreement bewtween Edgar and me about cause-and-effect, which is the basis of karma.
Although not active on the site I've done a little reading and found this quote from the Prajnaparamita Sutra: Subhuti said: "If I understand correctly, one who wishes to reach perfect wisdom should study the way things are in the world and should practice the perfections fully and in depth but should not believe them to be ultimately real, nor should he make concepts and doctrines out of them." The Buddha replied: "Just so, Subhuti. The one who contemplates existence in this way knows the nature of the conditioned and of the unconditioned and makes himself an expert in pointing out the truth to others, both with words and without words." This quote, I beleive, addresss your challenge about karma and Edgar and my recent postings about cause-and-effect. I would explain it that as long as you are under the illusion of having a 'self' there is a 'you' acting or being acted upon. And as long there is a 'you' 'acting', you will have illusions of 'past' and 'future', and 'you' will be subject to cause-and-effect, or karma. But, when are no longer under the illusion of 'self', there is no 'you' acting or being acted upon, in fact no 'actions'. That means there is only the present. There is no past or future. If there are no actions or past or future, then there can be no cause- and-effect or karma. So when you are free fom the illusion of 'self' you are no longer subject to cause-and-effect or karma. Not being subject to does not mean you are not aware of these illusions and can choose to act in accordance with them if you wish. The quote goes on to say: Subhuti asked: "But is this just for the wise and the intelligent?" "No, indeed," replied the Buddha. "This is open to all, even to the dull witted and to those who can't pay attention. The door is open to anyone who wants to tread this path--but not to the person who is lazy and indifferent." This part of the quote to me, especially at this time in my life, addresses my experiences with my Mom and the other Alhzheimer patients with which I have daily contact and from whom I learned so much. ...Bill! (Going back to Lurking-Mode now...) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > Â > Since everybody is lurking waiting to be excited. Here isÂ a multiple choiceÂ to think about. The samurai code quoted by Edgar is a perfect example of the 'present' moment. How about the past and the future? What is the position of karma in zen? > Â > A.Â Karma is a universal law nobody can escape from. It is the essence of Buddhism and also of some schools of zen. > Â > B.Â Karma relates to the past and the future, so it is nothing to do with zen. Whether or not it represents the truth we don't care. > Â > C.Â Karma is a fairy tale. You need something to scare kids, so they behave themselves. > Â > Regards, > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 23/11/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TEST > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, 23 November, 2008, 11:48 PM > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > The samurai code especially emphasizes that Zen is living our lives in the moment in the constant presence of death. Thus do we gain an immense appreciation for every transient moment of life and live it to the fullest. > > > > > Best, > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bill Smart wrote: > > > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@ ..> wrote: > > > > ANYONE STILL HERE? > >Â > > Edgar > > > Edgar et al, > > I'm stll here lurking only. My father was very ill and I had to flyÂ > to the US to be with him. Unfortnutaely he died when I was somewhereÂ > over the Pacific Ocean flying out of Tokyo. I was informed of hisÂ > death when I turned on my mobile phone upon arriving in Detroit. > > I was a good death for him. He had been fighting lymphoma (cancer ofÂ > the lymph nodes) for 4 or 5 years and has been in severe discomfortÂ > for at least the last serveral months. He died on 05 Nov, just 3Â > days short of what would have been his 91st birthday. > > I am now residing in my father's apartment in a retirement home whichÂ > is connected to the nursing home which houses my mother who is 89 andÂ > has Alhzheimer's. I have the opportunity to bring my mom up to theÂ > apartment every day,and to interact not only with her but with allÂ > the other Alhzheimer patients. It you want to see Buddha NatureÂ > unfettered and unadulterated you should spend time with some elderlyÂ > people such as these. They are such an inspiration! No clever gamesÂ > or silly posturing. It is true WYSIWYG (what you see is what youÂ > get), and that is what I call Buddha Nature - Just THIS! > > I have been and will continue to be very busy trying to sort out allÂ > the financial arrangements with will allow my mother to receive allÂ > the benefits to which she is entitled and allow her to live the restÂ > of her life in comfort and with secutity. Much of that is dealingÂ > with truts and lawyers and brokers and bankers. Also there was theÂ > mountain of mail which accumulated over the past several months fullÂ > of bills and medical insurance jargon that I still haven't been ableÂ > to fully penetrate. ALso there is of course the arrangements withÂ > Social Secutiy, my dad's pension and health insurance and hopfullyÂ > some VA surviving spouse benefits. The last part of this is planningÂ > and accompanying her on a to northern California to a facility nearÂ > two of my daughters - Castro Valley or Santa Rosa areas. > > I will continue to lurk, but don't expect much in the way of postingsÂ > for probably through the first of the year. > > With deep appreciation. ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your preferred Email name! > Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com > http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/ > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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