Edgar;

I have to agree with Marx on this one about sayind that religion is 
the opiate of the people.  The only thing is that this also aplies to 
buddhism and zen when they express themselves as a religion.  What I 
mean by this is that I have seen more  disorentation, speculation, 
stupidity and ignorance in the massive people who follow the Dalai 
Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh that I've ever seen in Christianity.  I'm 
not sure if this is because the majority who follow these two Leaders 
have changed their Christian clothing to something more snobish or 
what but the truth is that there is catch in everything and at the 
same time there is a truth in everything.  It's all a matter of 
having a clean mind and one can see heaven or the Buddha Nature 
everywhere.  

In any case it is never a matter of believing or not believing but a 
matter of experiencing all that in one.  Don't you think?

Mayka 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Anthony,
> 
> None of the below. Karma is a fairy tale for adults who are 
suffering  
> in this life, telling them things will be better in the next if 
they  
> behave themselves and don't cause problems in this one. Same as 
the  
> Christian view of heaven keeps all the exploited and suffering and  
> poor in line in this life to accept their condition. As Marx said,  
> religion is the opiate of the people. That includes both karma and  
> Christian heaven.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Since everybody is lurking waiting to be excited. Here is a  
> > multiple choice to think about. The samurai code quoted by Edgar 
is  
> > a perfect example of the 'present' moment. How about the past 
and  
> > the future? What is the position of karma in zen?
> >
> > A.  Karma is a universal law nobody can escape from. It is the  
> > essence of Buddhism and also of some schools of zen.
> >
> > B.  Karma relates to the past and the future, so it is nothing 
to  
> > do with zen. Whether or not it represents the truth we don't care.
> >
> > C.  Karma is a fairy tale. You need something to scare kids, so  
> > they behave themselves.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anthony
> >
> > --- On Sun, 23/11/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TEST
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, 23 November, 2008, 11:48 PM
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> >
> > The samurai code especially emphasizes that Zen is living our 
lives  
> > in the moment in the constant presence of death. Thus do we gain 
an  
> > immense appreciation for every transient moment of life and live 
it  
> > to the fullest.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bill Smart wrote:
> >
> >> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@ ..> 
wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ANYONE STILL HERE?
> >> >
> >> > Edgar
> >> >
> >> Edgar et al,
> >>
> >> I'm stll here lurking only. My father was very ill and I had to 
fly
> >> to the US to be with him. Unfortnutaely he died when I was 
somewhere
> >> over the Pacific Ocean flying out of Tokyo. I was informed of his
> >> death when I turned on my mobile phone upon arriving in Detroit.
> >>
> >> I was a good death for him. He had been fighting lymphoma 
(cancer of
> >> the lymph nodes) for 4 or 5 years and has been in severe 
discomfort
> >> for at least the last serveral months. He died on 05 Nov, just 3
> >> days short of what would have been his 91st birthday.
> >>
> >> I am now residing in my father's apartment in a retirement home 
which
> >> is connected to the nursing home which houses my mother who is 
89 and
> >> has Alhzheimer's. I have the opportunity to bring my mom up to 
the
> >> apartment every day,and to interact not only with her but with 
all
> >> the other Alhzheimer patients. It you want to see Buddha Nature
> >> unfettered and unadulterated you should spend time with some 
elderly
> >> people such as these. They are such an inspiration! No clever 
games
> >> or silly posturing. It is true WYSIWYG (what you see is what you
> >> get), and that is what I call Buddha Nature - Just THIS!
> >>
> >> I have been and will continue to be very busy trying to sort out 
all
> >> the financial arrangements with will allow my mother to receive 
all
> >> the benefits to which she is entitled and allow her to live the 
rest
> >> of her life in comfort and with secutity. Much of that is dealing
> >> with truts and lawyers and brokers and bankers. Also there was 
the
> >> mountain of mail which accumulated over the past several months 
full
> >> of bills and medical insurance jargon that I still haven't been 
able
> >> to fully penetrate. ALso there is of course the arrangements with
> >> Social Secutiy, my dad's pension and health insurance and 
hopfully
> >> some VA surviving spouse benefits. The last part of this is 
planning
> >> and accompanying her on a to northern California to a facility 
near
> >> two of my daughters - Castro Valley or Santa Rosa areas.
> >>
> >> I will continue to lurk, but don't expect much in the way of 
postings
> >> for probably through the first of the year.
> >>
> >> With deep appreciation. ...Bill!
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > New Email names for you!
> > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and  
> > @rocketmail.
> > Hurry before someone else does!
> >
> >
>



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