Mayka,

Exactly. Karma is not the same as cause and effect. Cause and effect are the rules of science by which the universe of forms operates. That is reality. Karma, on the other hand, tells believers that they will always reap what they sow, whether good or evil, and even if they have to wait till a next life time (just to make sure Karma can't be exposed as nonsense of course). Of course there is some correlation between how one treats others and how others treat one, but that is far from certain. And since there is no next lifetime, doing good in this one doesn't guarantee one won't reap evil in return instead of good.

Edgar



On Nov 24, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Mayka wrote:

Edgar;

I have to agree with Marx on this one about sayind that religion is
the opiate of the people. The only thing is that this also aplies to
buddhism and zen when they express themselves as a religion. What I
mean by this is that I have seen more disorentation, speculation,
stupidity and ignorance in the massive people who follow the Dalai
Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh that I've ever seen in Christianity. I'm
not sure if this is because the majority who follow these two Leaders
have changed their Christian clothing to something more snobish or
what but the truth is that there is catch in everything and at the
same time there is a truth in everything. It's all a matter of
having a clean mind and one can see heaven or the Buddha Nature
everywhere.

In any case it is never a matter of believing or not believing but a
matter of experiencing all that in one. Don't you think?

Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Anthony,
>
> None of the below. Karma is a fairy tale for adults who are
suffering
> in this life, telling them things will be better in the next if
they
> behave themselves and don't cause problems in this one. Same as
the
> Christian view of heaven keeps all the exploited and suffering and
> poor in line in this life to accept their condition. As Marx said,
> religion is the opiate of the people. That includes both karma and
> Christian heaven.
>
> Edgar
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Since everybody is lurking waiting to be excited. Here is a
> > multiple choice to think about. The samurai code quoted by Edgar
is
> > a perfect example of the 'present' moment. How about the past
and
> > the future? What is the position of karma in zen?
> >
> > A. Karma is a universal law nobody can escape from. It is the
> > essence of Buddhism and also of some schools of zen.
> >
> > B. Karma relates to the past and the future, so it is nothing
to
> > do with zen. Whether or not it represents the truth we don't care.
> >
> > C. Karma is a fairy tale. You need something to scare kids, so
> > they behave themselves.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anthony
> >
> > --- On Sun, 23/11/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TEST
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, 23 November, 2008, 11:48 PM
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> >
> > The samurai code especially emphasizes that Zen is living our
lives
> > in the moment in the constant presence of death. Thus do we gain
an
> > immense appreciation for every transient moment of life and live
it
> > to the fullest.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bill Smart wrote:
> >
> >> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@ ..>
wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ANYONE STILL HERE?
> >> >
> >> > Edgar
> >> >
> >> Edgar et al,
> >>
> >> I'm stll here lurking only. My father was very ill and I had to
fly
> >> to the US to be with him. Unfortnutaely he died when I was
somewhere
> >> over the Pacific Ocean flying out of Tokyo. I was informed of his
> >> death when I turned on my mobile phone upon arriving in Detroit.
> >>
> >> I was a good death for him. He had been fighting lymphoma
(cancer of
> >> the lymph nodes) for 4 or 5 years and has been in severe
discomfort
> >> for at least the last serveral months. He died on 05 Nov, just 3
> >> days short of what would have been his 91st birthday.
> >>
> >> I am now residing in my father's apartment in a retirement home
which
> >> is connected to the nursing home which houses my mother who is
89 and
> >> has Alhzheimer's. I have the opportunity to bring my mom up to
the
> >> apartment every day,and to interact not only with her but with
all
> >> the other Alhzheimer patients. It you want to see Buddha Nature
> >> unfettered and unadulterated you should spend time with some
elderly
> >> people such as these. They are such an inspiration! No clever
games
> >> or silly posturing. It is true WYSIWYG (what you see is what you
> >> get), and that is what I call Buddha Nature - Just THIS!
> >>
> >> I have been and will continue to be very busy trying to sort out
all
> >> the financial arrangements with will allow my mother to receive
all
> >> the benefits to which she is entitled and allow her to live the
rest
> >> of her life in comfort and with secutity. Much of that is dealing
> >> with truts and lawyers and brokers and bankers. Also there was
the
> >> mountain of mail which accumulated over the past several months
full
> >> of bills and medical insurance jargon that I still haven't been
able
> >> to fully penetrate. ALso there is of course the arrangements with
> >> Social Secutiy, my dad's pension and health insurance and
hopfully
> >> some VA surviving spouse benefits. The last part of this is
planning
> >> and accompanying her on a to northern California to a facility
near
> >> two of my daughters - Castro Valley or Santa Rosa areas.
> >>
> >> I will continue to lurk, but don't expect much in the way of
postings
> >> for probably through the first of the year.
> >>
> >> With deep appreciation. ...Bill!
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > New Email names for you!
> > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and
> > @rocketmail.
> > Hurry before someone else does!
> >
> >
>




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