Edgar;

In the way I have always understand Karma is as an
 accion and reaction of the action.  I don't believe in reincarnation 
and that kind of stuff.  But I believe in karma in the way I say.  I 
believe in that way because I can see that continuosly in small 
things a big things.  There is the karma of a Country built up 
through the actions on its history and the results as a karma at the 
present moment.  There is the karma of a family with the same 
pattern.  And there is our personal karma that it doesn't come from 
any past life by through our personal actions and the result as  
consequences whether positive or negative of that actions.  One just 
need to observe all this in order to see that this is like this and 
not just an idea.

Mayka 




--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mayka,
> 
> Exactly. Karma is not the same as cause and effect. Cause and 
effect  
> are the rules of science by which the universe of forms operates.  
> That is reality. Karma, on the other hand, tells believers that 
they  
> will always reap what they sow, whether good or evil, and even if  
> they have to wait till a next life time (just to make sure Karma  
> can't be exposed as nonsense of course). Of course there is some  
> correlation between how one treats others and how others treat 
one,  
> but that is far from certain. And since there is no next lifetime,  
> doing good in this one doesn't guarantee one won't reap evil in  
> return instead of good.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Mayka wrote:
> 
> > Edgar;
> >
> > I have to agree with Marx on this one about sayind that religion 
is
> > the opiate of the people. The only thing is that this also aplies 
to
> > buddhism and zen when they express themselves as a religion. What 
I
> > mean by this is that I have seen more disorentation, speculation,
> > stupidity and ignorance in the massive people who follow the Dalai
> > Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh that I've ever seen in Christianity. I'm
> > not sure if this is because the majority who follow these two 
Leaders
> > have changed their Christian clothing to something more snobish or
> > what but the truth is that there is catch in everything and at the
> > same time there is a truth in everything. It's all a matter of
> > having a clean mind and one can see heaven or the Buddha Nature
> > everywhere.
> >
> > In any case it is never a matter of believing or not believing 
but a
> > matter of experiencing all that in one. Don't you think?
> >
> > Mayka
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anthony,
> > >
> > > None of the below. Karma is a fairy tale for adults who are
> > suffering
> > > in this life, telling them things will be better in the next if
> > they
> > > behave themselves and don't cause problems in this one. Same as
> > the
> > > Christian view of heaven keeps all the exploited and suffering 
and
> > > poor in line in this life to accept their condition. As Marx 
said,
> > > religion is the opiate of the people. That includes both karma 
and
> > > Christian heaven.
> > >
> > > Edgar
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Since everybody is lurking waiting to be excited. Here is a
> > > > multiple choice to think about. The samurai code quoted by 
Edgar
> > is
> > > > a perfect example of the 'present' moment. How about the past
> > and
> > > > the future? What is the position of karma in zen?
> > > >
> > > > A. Karma is a universal law nobody can escape from. It is the
> > > > essence of Buddhism and also of some schools of zen.
> > > >
> > > > B. Karma relates to the past and the future, so it is nothing
> > to
> > > > do with zen. Whether or not it represents the truth we don't 
care.
> > > >
> > > > C. Karma is a fairy tale. You need something to scare kids, so
> > > > they behave themselves.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Anthony
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 23/11/08, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TEST
> > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Sunday, 23 November, 2008, 11:48 PM
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The samurai code especially emphasizes that Zen is living our
> > lives
> > > > in the moment in the constant presence of death. Thus do we 
gain
> > an
> > > > immense appreciation for every transient moment of life and 
live
> > it
> > > > to the fullest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Edgar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bill Smart wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@ ..>
> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ANYONE STILL HERE?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Edgar
> > > >> >
> > > >> Edgar et al,
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm stll here lurking only. My father was very ill and I had 
to
> > fly
> > > >> to the US to be with him. Unfortnutaely he died when I was
> > somewhere
> > > >> over the Pacific Ocean flying out of Tokyo. I was informed 
of his
> > > >> death when I turned on my mobile phone upon arriving in 
Detroit.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was a good death for him. He had been fighting lymphoma
> > (cancer of
> > > >> the lymph nodes) for 4 or 5 years and has been in severe
> > discomfort
> > > >> for at least the last serveral months. He died on 05 Nov, 
just 3
> > > >> days short of what would have been his 91st birthday.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am now residing in my father's apartment in a retirement 
home
> > which
> > > >> is connected to the nursing home which houses my mother who 
is
> > 89 and
> > > >> has Alhzheimer's. I have the opportunity to bring my mom up 
to
> > the
> > > >> apartment every day,and to interact not only with her but 
with
> > all
> > > >> the other Alhzheimer patients. It you want to see Buddha 
Nature
> > > >> unfettered and unadulterated you should spend time with some
> > elderly
> > > >> people such as these. They are such an inspiration! No clever
> > games
> > > >> or silly posturing. It is true WYSIWYG (what you see is what 
you
> > > >> get), and that is what I call Buddha Nature - Just THIS!
> > > >>
> > > >> I have been and will continue to be very busy trying to sort 
out
> > all
> > > >> the financial arrangements with will allow my mother to 
receive
> > all
> > > >> the benefits to which she is entitled and allow her to live 
the
> > rest
> > > >> of her life in comfort and with secutity. Much of that is 
dealing
> > > >> with truts and lawyers and brokers and bankers. Also there 
was
> > the
> > > >> mountain of mail which accumulated over the past several 
months
> > full
> > > >> of bills and medical insurance jargon that I still haven't 
been
> > able
> > > >> to fully penetrate. ALso there is of course the arrangements 
with
> > > >> Social Secutiy, my dad's pension and health insurance and
> > hopfully
> > > >> some VA surviving spouse benefits. The last part of this is
> > planning
> > > >> and accompanying her on a to northern California to a 
facility
> > near
> > > >> two of my daughters - Castro Valley or Santa Rosa areas.
> > > >>
> > > >> I will continue to lurk, but don't expect much in the way of
> > postings
> > > >> for probably through the first of the year.
> > > >>
> > > >> With deep appreciation. ...Bill!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > New Email names for you!
> > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and
> > > > @rocketmail.
> > > > Hurry before someone else does!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>



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