Edgar;
 
 In the way I have always understand Karma is as an
  accion and reaction of the action.  I don't believe in 
reincarnation 
 and that kind of stuff.  But I believe in karma in the way I say.  I 
 believe in that way because one can continuosly see that in small 
 things and big things.  There is the karma of a Country built up 
 through the actions on its history and the results as a karma at the 
 present moment.  There is the karma of a family with the same 
 pattern.  And there is our personal karma that it doesn't come from 
 any past life (that is nonsense)  but through our daily personal 
actions and the reaction of our actions as a result of it.  

 
 Mayka 
 
 
> 
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> >
> > Mayka,
> > 
> > Exactly. Karma is not the same as cause and effect. Cause and 
> effect  
> > are the rules of science by which the universe of forms 
operates.  
> > That is reality. Karma, on the other hand, tells believers that 
> they  
> > will always reap what they sow, whether good or evil, and even 
if  
> > they have to wait till a next life time (just to make sure Karma  
> > can't be exposed as nonsense of course). Of course there is some  
> > correlation between how one treats others and how others treat 
> one,  
> > but that is far from certain. And since there is no next 
lifetime,  
> > doing good in this one doesn't guarantee one won't reap evil in  
> > return instead of good.
> > 
> > Edgar
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Nov 24, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Mayka wrote:
> > 
> > > Edgar;
> > >
> > > I have to agree with Marx on this one about sayind that 
religion 
> is
> > > the opiate of the people. The only thing is that this also 
aplies 
> to
> > > buddhism and zen when they express themselves as a religion. 
What 
> I
> > > mean by this is that I have seen more disorentation, 
speculation,
> > > stupidity and ignorance in the massive people who follow the 
Dalai
> > > Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh that I've ever seen in Christianity. 
I'm
> > > not sure if this is because the majority who follow these two 
> Leaders
> > > have changed their Christian clothing to something more snobish 
or
> > > what but the truth is that there is catch in everything and at 
the
> > > same time there is a truth in everything. It's all a matter of
> > > having a clean mind and one can see heaven or the Buddha Nature
> > > everywhere.
> > >
> > > In any case it is never a matter of believing or not believing 
> but a
> > > matter of experiencing all that in one. Don't you think?
> > >
> > > Mayka
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anthony,
> > > >
> > > > None of the below. Karma is a fairy tale for adults who are
> > > suffering
> > > > in this life, telling them things will be better in the next 
if
> > > they
> > > > behave themselves and don't cause problems in this one. Same 
as
> > > the
> > > > Christian view of heaven keeps all the exploited and 
suffering 
> and
> > > > poor in line in this life to accept their condition. As Marx 
> said,
> > > > religion is the opiate of the people. That includes both 
karma 
> and
> > > > Christian heaven.
> > > >
> > > > Edgar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > Since everybody is lurking waiting to be excited. Here is a
> > > > > multiple choice to think about. The samurai code quoted by 
> Edgar
> > > is
> > > > > a perfect example of the 'present' moment. How about the 
past
> > > and
> > > > > the future? What is the position of karma in zen?
> > > > >
> > > > > A. Karma is a universal law nobody can escape from. It is 
the
> > > > > essence of Buddhism and also of some schools of zen.
> > > > >
> > > > > B. Karma relates to the past and the future, so it is 
nothing
> > > to
> > > > > do with zen. Whether or not it represents the truth we 
don't 
> care.
> > > > >
> > > > > C. Karma is a fairy tale. You need something to scare kids, 
so
> > > > > they behave themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Anthony
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Sun, 23/11/08, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TEST
> > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Sunday, 23 November, 2008, 11:48 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The samurai code especially emphasizes that Zen is living 
our
> > > lives
> > > > > in the moment in the constant presence of death. Thus do we 
> gain
> > > an
> > > > > immense appreciation for every transient moment of life and 
> live
> > > it
> > > > > to the fullest.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Edgar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bill Smart wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Edgar Owen 
<edgarowen@ ..>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ANYONE STILL HERE?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Edgar
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> Edgar et al,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm stll here lurking only. My father was very ill and I 
had 
> to
> > > fly
> > > > >> to the US to be with him. Unfortnutaely he died when I was
> > > somewhere
> > > > >> over the Pacific Ocean flying out of Tokyo. I was informed 
> of his
> > > > >> death when I turned on my mobile phone upon arriving in 
> Detroit.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was a good death for him. He had been fighting lymphoma
> > > (cancer of
> > > > >> the lymph nodes) for 4 or 5 years and has been in severe
> > > discomfort
> > > > >> for at least the last serveral months. He died on 05 Nov, 
> just 3
> > > > >> days short of what would have been his 91st birthday.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am now residing in my father's apartment in a retirement 
> home
> > > which
> > > > >> is connected to the nursing home which houses my mother 
who 
> is
> > > 89 and
> > > > >> has Alhzheimer's. I have the opportunity to bring my mom 
up 
> to
> > > the
> > > > >> apartment every day,and to interact not only with her but 
> with
> > > all
> > > > >> the other Alhzheimer patients. It you want to see Buddha 
> Nature
> > > > >> unfettered and unadulterated you should spend time with 
some
> > > elderly
> > > > >> people such as these. They are such an inspiration! No 
clever
> > > games
> > > > >> or silly posturing. It is true WYSIWYG (what you see is 
what 
> you
> > > > >> get), and that is what I call Buddha Nature - Just THIS!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have been and will continue to be very busy trying to 
sort 
> out
> > > all
> > > > >> the financial arrangements with will allow my mother to 
> receive
> > > all
> > > > >> the benefits to which she is entitled and allow her to 
live 
> the
> > > rest
> > > > >> of her life in comfort and with secutity. Much of that is 
> dealing
> > > > >> with truts and lawyers and brokers and bankers. Also there 
> was
> > > the
> > > > >> mountain of mail which accumulated over the past several 
> months
> > > full
> > > > >> of bills and medical insurance jargon that I still haven't 
> been
> > > able
> > > > >> to fully penetrate. ALso there is of course the 
arrangements 
> with
> > > > >> Social Secutiy, my dad's pension and health insurance and
> > > hopfully
> > > > >> some VA surviving spouse benefits. The last part of this is
> > > planning
> > > > >> and accompanying her on a to northern California to a 
> facility
> > > near
> > > > >> two of my daughters - Castro Valley or Santa Rosa areas.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I will continue to lurk, but don't expect much in the way 
of
> > > postings
> > > > >> for probably through the first of the year.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> With deep appreciation. ...Bill!
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > New Email names for you!
> > > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail 
and
> > > > > @rocketmail.
> > > > > Hurry before someone else does!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>



------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to