Mayka,

There is certainly cause and effect, but Karma says that good causes always garner good effects which is nonsense. Good people are harmed and wiped out all the time. Evil people prosper all the time.

Edgar



On Nov 25, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Mayka wrote:

Edgar;

In the way I have always understand Karma is as an
accion and reaction of the action. I don't believe in reincarnation
and that kind of stuff. But I believe in karma in the way I say. I
believe in that way because I can see that continuosly in small
things a big things. There is the karma of a Country built up
through the actions on its history and the results as a karma at the
present moment. There is the karma of a family with the same
pattern. And there is our personal karma that it doesn't come from
any past life by through our personal actions and the result as
consequences whether positive or negative of that actions. One just
need to observe all this in order to see that this is like this and
not just an idea.

Mayka

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mayka,
>
> Exactly. Karma is not the same as cause and effect. Cause and
effect
> are the rules of science by which the universe of forms operates.
> That is reality. Karma, on the other hand, tells believers that
they
> will always reap what they sow, whether good or evil, and even if
> they have to wait till a next life time (just to make sure Karma
> can't be exposed as nonsense of course). Of course there is some
> correlation between how one treats others and how others treat
one,
> but that is far from certain. And since there is no next lifetime,
> doing good in this one doesn't guarantee one won't reap evil in
> return instead of good.
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Mayka wrote:
>
> > Edgar;
> >
> > I have to agree with Marx on this one about sayind that religion
is
> > the opiate of the people. The only thing is that this also aplies
to
> > buddhism and zen when they express themselves as a religion. What
I
> > mean by this is that I have seen more disorentation, speculation,
> > stupidity and ignorance in the massive people who follow the Dalai
> > Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh that I've ever seen in Christianity. I'm
> > not sure if this is because the majority who follow these two
Leaders
> > have changed their Christian clothing to something more snobish or
> > what but the truth is that there is catch in everything and at the
> > same time there is a truth in everything. It's all a matter of
> > having a clean mind and one can see heaven or the Buddha Nature
> > everywhere.
> >
> > In any case it is never a matter of believing or not believing
but a
> > matter of experiencing all that in one. Don't you think?
> >
> > Mayka
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anthony,
> > >
> > > None of the below. Karma is a fairy tale for adults who are
> > suffering
> > > in this life, telling them things will be better in the next if
> > they
> > > behave themselves and don't cause problems in this one. Same as
> > the
> > > Christian view of heaven keeps all the exploited and suffering
and
> > > poor in line in this life to accept their condition. As Marx
said,
> > > religion is the opiate of the people. That includes both karma
and
> > > Christian heaven.
> > >
> > > Edgar
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Since everybody is lurking waiting to be excited. Here is a
> > > > multiple choice to think about. The samurai code quoted by
Edgar
> > is
> > > > a perfect example of the 'present' moment. How about the past
> > and
> > > > the future? What is the position of karma in zen?
> > > >
> > > > A. Karma is a universal law nobody can escape from. It is the
> > > > essence of Buddhism and also of some schools of zen.
> > > >
> > > > B. Karma relates to the past and the future, so it is nothing
> > to
> > > > do with zen. Whether or not it represents the truth we don't
care.
> > > >
> > > > C. Karma is a fairy tale. You need something to scare kids, so
> > > > they behave themselves.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Anthony
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 23/11/08, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: TEST
> > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Sunday, 23 November, 2008, 11:48 PM
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The samurai code especially emphasizes that Zen is living our
> > lives
> > > > in the moment in the constant presence of death. Thus do we
gain
> > an
> > > > immense appreciation for every transient moment of life and
live
> > it
> > > > to the fullest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Edgar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bill Smart wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@ ..>
> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ANYONE STILL HERE?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Edgar
> > > >> >
> > > >> Edgar et al,
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm stll here lurking only. My father was very ill and I had
to
> > fly
> > > >> to the US to be with him. Unfortnutaely he died when I was
> > somewhere
> > > >> over the Pacific Ocean flying out of Tokyo. I was informed
of his
> > > >> death when I turned on my mobile phone upon arriving in
Detroit.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was a good death for him. He had been fighting lymphoma
> > (cancer of
> > > >> the lymph nodes) for 4 or 5 years and has been in severe
> > discomfort
> > > >> for at least the last serveral months. He died on 05 Nov,
just 3
> > > >> days short of what would have been his 91st birthday.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am now residing in my father's apartment in a retirement
home
> > which
> > > >> is connected to the nursing home which houses my mother who
is
> > 89 and
> > > >> has Alhzheimer's. I have the opportunity to bring my mom up
to
> > the
> > > >> apartment every day,and to interact not only with her but
with
> > all
> > > >> the other Alhzheimer patients. It you want to see Buddha
Nature
> > > >> unfettered and unadulterated you should spend time with some
> > elderly
> > > >> people such as these. They are such an inspiration! No clever
> > games
> > > >> or silly posturing. It is true WYSIWYG (what you see is what
you
> > > >> get), and that is what I call Buddha Nature - Just THIS!
> > > >>
> > > >> I have been and will continue to be very busy trying to sort
out
> > all
> > > >> the financial arrangements with will allow my mother to
receive
> > all
> > > >> the benefits to which she is entitled and allow her to live
the
> > rest
> > > >> of her life in comfort and with secutity. Much of that is
dealing
> > > >> with truts and lawyers and brokers and bankers. Also there
was
> > the
> > > >> mountain of mail which accumulated over the past several
months
> > full
> > > >> of bills and medical insurance jargon that I still haven't
been
> > able
> > > >> to fully penetrate. ALso there is of course the arrangements
with
> > > >> Social Secutiy, my dad's pension and health insurance and
> > hopfully
> > > >> some VA surviving spouse benefits. The last part of this is
> > planning
> > > >> and accompanying her on a to northern California to a
facility
> > near
> > > >> two of my daughters - Castro Valley or Santa Rosa areas.
> > > >>
> > > >> I will continue to lurk, but don't expect much in the way of
> > postings
> > > >> for probably through the first of the year.
> > > >>
> > > >> With deep appreciation. ...Bill!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > New Email names for you!
> > > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and
> > > > @rocketmail.
> > > > Hurry before someone else does!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>




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