Edgar,

I believe direct experiences are real.  These include sensory sensations and
emotions.

I believe intellectualizing creates illusions.  This includes concepts and
all discrimination (dualism).

As far as a brick dropping on my foot I believe:
- I don't know whether the brick is real or an illusion.  The concept I have
of bricks is an illusion.
- The image I see of the brick (if I see it) is real.
- The concept of cause-and-effect related to this 'event' is illusory.
- The pain is real.

...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:11 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God

Bill,

There are illusions and there are illusions. The veils of illusion are
multiple and myriad. Some are easy to penetrate, others impossible as they
are artifacts of our existence in human form.

I'm surprised that you accept anything as 'not illusion' based on past
discussions, but if you accept pain then why not physical causality? If a
brick drops on your foot, you accept that the pain it causes is real, but
not that the brick dropping on your foot caused it?

Edgar





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