Thinking of your own 'self' is okay as long as you are not attached to your 
self.  Thinking of others in that same way is okay because they are the same as 
your self.  It's okay to think of your right hand and okay to think of your 
left hand.

The point for this thread is that this thinking of, and perhaps acting for 
yourself or others is spontenous and not a result of any hope for reward or 
fear of punishment - like satisfying an internal goal or external rule to be 
compassionate.  A third party might call it compassion, but for you it is just 
putting one foot in front of the other.

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "maitreya003" <joult...@...> wrote:
>
> or build a boat when one is spontaneously needed.  or feed others when they 
> hunger, help find shelter for those who need rest.  When self is individual 
> then it's all about individual needs.  Thinking of your self is ok but not 
> other selves.
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay, how about '...eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired, wake 
> > when you're rested and build a boat when you're asked.'?
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "maitreya003" <joultimo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill
> > > 
> > > Just keep sitting, and eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired, 
> > > wake when you're rested and deal with whatever comes up in a spontaneous 
> > > manner without any goals or valutions in mind."
> > > 
> > >  And if someone asks you to design and build a boat, can you just sit and 
> > > not set any goals and valuations, or must you put thought into the design 
> > > and effort into the build, even though it's an illusion?  
> > > 
> > > Apparently you place valuation on sitting, eating when hungry and 
> > > sleeping when tired, etc, Because that is the way, the only way to you.  
> > > A set of illusory standards within the illusion.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >  
> > > > Your argument is not without reason. The point is your encouragement 
> > > > for the 'spontaneity', which will give plenty of excuses for bad guys.
> > > >  
> > > > Anthony
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Sun, 25/7/10, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Compassion
> > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Sunday, 25 July, 2010, 10:38 AM
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Anthony,
> > > > 
> > > > I disagree. They have a motive for both:
> > > > 
> > > > They sell drugs to obtain money and power.
> > > > 
> > > > They take drugs because they do not like, or are not satisfied with, or 
> > > > do not want to accept who they are.
> > > > 
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill,
> > > > >  
> > > > > Go to Mexico, and be welcome by the drug kings on the highlighted 
> > > > > words.
> > > > >  
> > > > > In their minds, selling and taking drugs are 'spontaneous'.
> > > > >  
> > > > > Anthony
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- On Sat, 24/7/10, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Compassion
> > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Saturday, 24 July, 2010, 5:18 PM
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ed, Thats a good question.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Merriam-Webster Online defines 'compassion' as:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "A sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a 
> > > > > desire to alleviate it."
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't know how to resolve this from a zen perspective since the 
> > > > > concepts of 'others', 'distress', 'desire' and even to some exten 
> > > > > 'alleviate' are illusory.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think 'compassion' is just one of those Buddhist teaching devices, 
> > > > > like karma, to help you decide what to do before you are ready to 
> > > > > decide that for yourself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wouldn't worry too much about compassion. Just keep sitting, and 
> > > > > eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired, wake when you're 
> > > > > rested and deal with whatever comes up in a spontaneous manner 
> > > > > without any goals or valutions in mind.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What is "compassion"?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=define%3Acompassion&aq=f&\
> > > > > > aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai
> > > > > > <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=define%3Acompassion&aq=f\
> > > > > > &aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai> =
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --ED
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




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