Whoops!  I sent that too soon. 

I was going to say that regular  seems to improve my worship experience - I can 
just stand, just kneel, just sing, just look around at my fellow congregsnts 
and share communion without so much internal chatter and commentary. I even 
find myself finding value in sermons that would have been way too coservative 
for me previously. Being aware of my tendency to judge each statement has 
allowed that judging to relax a bit and instead notice what is interesting in 
people's speech. A more relaxed and whole-hearted experience. 

On the other hand, why are you asking?  If you are starting out with Zen, 
starting out with a new Church seems a bit much. And if you are in some 
religious community, just see how the shifts in your perspective alter the 
experience of that community. 

Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On Sep 16, 2010, at 6:32, ChrisAustinLane <ch...@austin-lane.net> wrote:

> And here I was going to say that Zen has a tradition of having people figure 
> stuff out for themselves. People have always worshipped in groups and 
> probably always will. I attend a Christian church and practice zazen. I don't 
> run into trouble in either camp. I will say that as I become less interested 
> in my own thoughts, I find it increasingly implausible that God, however 
> experienced or known, would care about my thoughts either.  My church is 
> pretty liberal and is based on a tradition of communal worship more 
> individual professions of faith, so we probably have people with all sorts of 
> divergent beliefs, but have never made our human thoughts the focus (except 
> for typical petty squabbles about what songs to sing and when to stand and 
> when to kneel etc.). 
> Zen can be understood and practiced solely as an activity in which one is 
> trained, not as a metaphysical belief system. 
> I have to say that
> Thanks,
> Chris Austin-Lane
> Sent from a cell phone
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 3:17, Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
>> DP,
>> There is certainly immense intelligence embodied in the universe but it is 
>> not the God imagined by Christians. The Christian God as usually thought of 
>> is a delusion and delusions are the antithesis of Zen which deals only with 
>> reality as it actually is. Anyone who believes in the usual Christian God 
>> does not know Zen.
>> Edgar
>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 11:16 PM, DP wrote:
>>> I have reconciled Zen and my Christian practise, if not beliefs - there 
>>> seems to be little contrary to Zen in practising compassion towards others 
>>> and showing mercy, which to me are the core of Jesus's teachings. Believing 
>>> in God might be another thing, however. From what I understand, Buddhism 
>>> and Zen do not deny the existence of God(s) but stress their non-importance 
>>> to enlightenment. As long as I do not cling to an image of God (which the 
>>> Abrahamic religions actually warn against in their admonition of idolatry) 
>>> can I still be open to the presence of some intelligence to the universe? 
>>> Or is that un-Zen?

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